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 LSA Council #9 - Meeting Minutes
[2015-03-31]
LOCATION: Room 316, NCDH
DATE: March 31, 2015 at 19h00
PRESENT: President (Hersi Hujaleh), VP Administration (Anne-Sophie Villeneuve), VP Public Relations
(David McLeod), VP Finance (Alexander Robinson), VP Clubs (Sean McGinnis), VP Internal Ongoing Events
(Maria Rodriguez), VP External (Vincent-Pierre Fullerton), VP Academic (Léa Pelletier-Marcotte), Alexandra
Belley McKinnon (4L President), Philippe Bernier-Cormier (3L President), Talia Bensoussan (2L President),
Alyssa Edwards (2L President), Brouk Negousse (1L President), Farnell Morriset (1L President), Guillaume
Blais (Faculty Council), Michel Bélanger-Roy (Faculty Council), Marc Roy (Faculty Council), Dan Snyder (Law
Senator), Benjamin Dionne (Speaker).
ABSENT:.Alexandra Bornac (4L President), Thomas Touchie (Faculty Council), Julie Beauchamp (3L
President), VP Internal Special Events (Justine Blair), Justin Fisch (Faculty Council).
(1) CALL FOR ORDER
7:05 pm.
(2)
•
•
•
MOTION TO OPEN THE AGENDA
Moved by Vincent-Pierre.
Seconded by Léa.
Motion carries; the agenda is approved.
(3) RAPPORTS DE L’EXÉCUTIF
I.
PRESIDENT
• Meeting with the Dean: Strike referendum was a big issue.
• Reserved space in the Law Library: there was some backlash, to Hersi and the Dean’s surprise.
Questions et réponses
• Dan Snyder: Was there backlash from LSA members?
o Hersi: I received much more positive comments than negative ones, but some people
have expressed their displeasure. It is a testament to the fact that we can never quite
predict people’s reactions.
•
•
•
•
II.
VP-ACADEMIC
Léa : read her report, including the resolutions on Curricular Renewal that will be voted at Faculty
Council on April 1.
Resolutions in principle were adopted by Curriculum Committee last week.
er
Demain (1 avril), le Faculty Council va présenter un résumé de ce sur quoi le Exams and
Evaluations Committee a travaillé jusqu’à présent. L’accent sera mis sur les programmes passfail dans les autres facultés et les moyens d’obtenir du « meaningful feedback ». Le Comité a un
mandat pour 2016.
Durnford Award a été remis au Professeur Frédéric Bachand.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
Questions et réponses
• Vincent-Pierre : Est-ce que la semaine d’intégration serait rattachée à des crédits?
o Léa : Oui, mais ce n’est pas encore certain comment l’allocation des crédits
fonctionnerait.
• Michel : Qu’est-ce qu’on entend par « trade-schoolization » de la Faculté?
o Léa : La Faculté se veut distincte, par son enseignement théorique et pas
nécessairement axé sur la pratique du droit. Il y a un sentiment chez certains que la
Faculté se conforme de plus en plus aux demandes du marché du travail ou des
Barreaux (par exemple, en rendant Business Associations obligatoire).
• Philippe : En quoi va consister le nouveau cours de Justice criminelle?
o Léa : Le but est d’intégrer davantage de droit public en première année, parce qu’en ce
moment c’est majoritairement axé vers le droit privé. Cela permet aussi aux étudiants de
toucher au droit criminel dès la première année au lieu de devoir attendre la deuxième ou
troisième année. Aussi, cela permet aux professeurs d’aborder tous les aspects de droit
criminel (certains profs se sentaient limités de ne pas pouvoir parler de procédure dans le
cours de droit pénal et inversement).
• Marc : Was the Evaluation Committee report communicated?
o Léa : No, there won’t be a report.
• Dan : When will the capstone course apply/come into force?
o Marc : The new program will take effect for incoming students, so the students who are
already in their second, third or fourth years will not be affected by new program
requirements.
• Philippe: Comment la Faculté va-t-elle accommoder les étudiants qui prennent des cours horsFaculté pendant la semaine d’intégration?
o Léa : Ce sera étudié éventuellement.
•
III.
VP-ADMINISTRATION
Nothing to add.
•
IV.
VP-CLUBS
Nothing to add.
•
V.
VP-EXTERNAL
Nothing to add.
Questions et réponses
• Maria: What happened at the last SSMU Council meeting?
o Vincent-Pierre: The motion on women-only hours was adopted by SSMU Council. C’est
la fin de l’année, donc c’est un peu plus difficile de prendre des mesures pour le moment,
mais la discussion va se poursuivre.
o Dan: Now that the compromise option is put forward (a separate gym, not restricted
hours), more people seem to be on board. If the administration really refuses to listen,
some other actions could be taken, eg a recourse before the Human Rights Commission
(but that is a last recourse).
• Marc: Are there other faculties at McGill on strike, or voting on a strike?
o Dan: French-language Faculty, us, another?
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
•
Michel: Quelles autres motions ont été adoptées par le SSMU Council?
o Vincent-Pierre: Des trucs de policy, rien que je juge pertinent de discuter ici.
•
VI.
VP-FINANCE
Nothing to add.
•
VII.
VP-INTERNAL (Ongoing Events) – Maria Rodriguez
Nothing to add.
Questions et réponses
• Philippe : Are we seriously considering having coffeehouse if we strike on Thursday?
o Maria : Yes, we are considering it. We are not sure yet of what we will do, the Exec will
have to make a decision once the results of the vote are known.
• Philippe : Isn’t it hypocritical to not go to class and then go to school to drink at Coffeehouse?
o Maria : We don’t think it is necessarily hypocritical, but as I said, the Exec will have to
discuss it once the results are known.
• Dan : Electoral campaigns are taking place next week; wouldn’t it be better to hold the last
coffeehouse next week so that candidates may make speeches?
• Maria : By a show of hands, who thinks we should postpone Coffeehouse if there is a strike?
o Majority raised their hands.
•
VIII.
VP-INTERNAL (Special Events) – Justine Blair
Absent.
•
IX.
VP-PUBLIC RELATIONS
Nothing to add.
Questions et réponses
• Michel: On a beaucoup entendu que les commandites étaient en baisse. Quel est l’état de la
situation après un an?
o David: On a reçu 2000-3000$ de moins que l’an dernier, ce qui était en ligne avec nos
prédictions.
(4) MOTIONS
I.
RESOLUTION POUR UNE POLITIQUE DE PARTENARIATS DE L’AED
•
•
Moved by Farnell.
Seconded by Brouk.
Discussion
• Benjamin Brunot (creator of motion): Mon intention n’était pas de faire quelque chose de
radical. L’intention derrière cette résolution est que en tant que groupe étudiant, on peut définir
collectivement le genre d’événements qu’on désire voir commandités. Ce serait bien d’avoir des
événements qui tournent autour d’autre chose que la nourriture ou la boisson. Le genre
d’événements typiquement commandités tend également à créer un déséquilibre entre les
grands cabinets et les carrières alternatives.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
•
•
•
•
•
Maria: I see that you want to implement this in the sponsorship package. Usually, the package is
prepared early in the summer, so there is little time to compile the data and prepare the package
accordingly. Maybe it would be better to transmit our concerns to next year’s LSA Exec and the
package could be amended for the following year (2016-2017).
Guillaume: Trying to figure out what to do with this. Congratulations on the detailed nature of the
motion. However, I am outraged that this is before Council at this time. There are a lot of items
here and this resolution should be subject to a massive discussion of many hours. We could
maybe keep in mind the object and spirit of this motion when devising the new package, but we
could work with what we already have rather than try to revolutionalize things.
David: To make this binding would require a lot of discussion and debate. However, the ideas
outlined are good and they do reflect what we want as students. However, I would disagree that
all sponsored events involve partying and drinking; many events that are listed in the sponsorship
package include other kinds of events (Ski Trip, Cabane à sucre), but it is up to the firms which
events they choose to sponsor.
Marc: The motion is good, as I feel that the relationship between firms and the LSA has been
seen as problematic for some time by many students. However, it is a massive motion and
perhaps the best forum or context to discuss this in would be the upcoming electoral campaign.
Farnell: Proposes an amendment to strike out “le montant et la nature de leurs commandites” in
the operative clauses, and to strike out “été 2015” to give the next Exec more time to implement
this.
MOTION TO AMEND:
• To remove the amount and timeline provisions.
• Moved by Farnell.
• No seconder; motion dies on the floor.
Discussion
• Talia: Perhaps we should table this motion until next year, when the new Exec and Council are
elected.
MOTION TO TABLE MAIN MOTION
• Moved by Talia
• Seconded by Philippe.
Discussion on that motion
• Maria: I think that the discussion should be tabled until the first LSA Council meeting of next year
(2015-2016). But the motion could be included in transition documents given to the next VP PR.
VOTE ON THE MOTION TO TABLE THE MOTION
• Majority in favour (two oppositions); motion passes. Motion is tabled, but the text of the motion
will be part of the transition documents given to next year’s VP PR.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
II.
•
•
MOTION TO ADOPT RECOMMENDATIONS OF MENTAL HEALTH COMMITTEE
REPORT
Moved by Farnell.
Seconded by Hersi.
Discussion on main motion
• Benjamin Brunot (creator of motion): La résolution résume assez bien les conclusions du
Comité de la santé mentale. Ces conclusions se basent sur l’avis et les suggestions des
étudiants. Les conclusions s’écartent de mesures visant les “capital expenditures”, avenue qui
n’était pas privilégiée par le Doyen non plus. Beaucoup d’étudiants ont exprimé l’idée que la
question de santé mentale nécessite un changement culturel général, et pour apporter un tel
changement, il faut amorcer un processus politique et social et pas seulement des mesures
ponctuelles.
• Guillaume: Congratulations on the realization of work that has been coming for three years, and I
will gladly support this motion.
• Michel: Combien va coûter l’audit?
o Benjamin: Pense que le prix va tourner autour de 5000-10 000$, et ne devrait
certainement pas dépasser 12 000$. L’idée est de parler à des consultants, d’obtenir une
idée des prix et ensuite de présenter un devis au Conseil de l’AED à l’automne, pour le
faire approuver par le Conseil.
• Vincent-Pierre: Il serait peut-être préférable de fixer un montant maximal à l’audit?
o Benjamin: On pourrait toujours mettre un cap à environ 15 000$, avec l’idée que ça
tournera sûrement plus autour de 10 000$. Mais je ne sais pas si c’est une bonne idée
de mettre un montant maximal. De plus, un devis sera présenté au Conseil avant que
l’audit soit entamé et qu’un consultant soit embauché.
• Maria: I think that we can assume that the Mental Health Committee understands that the whole
$50,000 cannot be spent on the audit. The fact that the audit must be approved by Council before
a consultant is hired also adds a layer of protection against overspending.
VOTE ON MOTION
• Majority in favour; motion passes.
III.
•
•
MOTION TO ADOPT DRAFT FRAMEWORK BUDGET – ORIENTATION 2015
Moved by Maria and Hersi
Seconded by someone.
Discussion
• Maria: Draft budget that the incoming LSA Exec could use. The reason for this is that when I was
elected, I was immediately put in charge of organizing Orientation and I didn’t have any
experience with the VP Internal job so it was hard to know exactly what to do. It would have been
easier to reduce the overall costs of Orientation if I had known what would happen down the line
and if I had had more experience.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
•
•
•
•
•
Hersi: This is really based on everything we have learned from our experience this year. It is
rather conservative: we did not forecast any increase in sponsorship and only forecast a 6%
increase in income.
Guillaume: Is displeased with this budget. It looks more like a budget prepared with the goal of
avoiding a deficit than one that is prepared with the goal of reducing costs.
Maria: Whatever we charge for the Orientation ticket includes not only Welcome Ball, but also all
Orientation activities.
Michel: Souligne que la méthode de préparer un projet de budget pour le prochain Exécutif est la
bonne. Cependant, n’est pas d’accord que le coût du billet n’est pas influencé en majorité par le
Welcome Ball; c’est l’événement le plus important et le plus coûteux, sans le Welcome Ball les
coûts pourraient être entièrement assumés par les commanditaires.
Michel: Présente un amendement. Veut changer le projet de budget pour une seconde version,
préparée avec Gullaume. Selon ce projet de budget, le coût maximal du Welcome Ball serait de
17 000$ et le coût du bracelet d’Orientation serait de 75$, ce qui réduirait du même coup le
déficit.
MOTION TO AMEND (Changing the numbers for the second version of the draft budget)
• Moved by Michel
• Seconded by Guillaume
Discussion
• Dan: Can we hear about the VP Finance on this issue, and why was he not brought into those
discussions?
• Alexander: I will not answer the second part of this question. I am worried that the amounts
outlined in the budget seem arbitrary.
• Maria: I think the $17,000 maximum limit is fine. I am a bit worried as to the $75 ticket price. The
year before I was VP Internal, the price of the ticket was $105 and there was a lot of participation
(over 200 students). This year, the price went down to $90 and fewer people participated in
Orientation.
• Léa: Ceux qui me connaissent savent que le Welcome Ball est mon pet peeve depuis longtemps
et je suis contente qu’on fasse quelque chose sur cet enjeu. Je préfère la seconde version du
projet de budget même si je pense qu’on pourrait baisser le prix encore plus.
• Farnell: Aucun de ces projets de budget n’est contraignant, donc le but ici est d’envoyer un
message clair au prochain Exécutif. En ce sens, la seconde version envoie un message plus
clair.
• Philippe: Je me demande si on est pas en train de baisser des montants un peu arbitrairement
pour les faire entrer dans le budget. Par exemple, est-ce que c’est vraiment possible de réduire le
coût des lunch? Lorsque j’étais dans le Comité d’orientation, on avait choisi les options les moins
coûteuses possible.
o Maria: It’s true that we picked cheap options. However, sometimes we ordered too much
food, so costs could be reduced there.
• Vincent-Pierre: I think Welcome Ball should stay as an event and it should be mandatorily
included in the price of the ticket because or else it is too hard to estimate who will go and to plan
the event accordingly, and also it is what defines and differentiates our Faculty from others.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
VOTE ON MOTION TO AMEND
• Motion passes unanimously; second version of draft budget will be voted on.
Discussion on main motion
• Marc: Worried that this budget says something determinative about how we see Orientation to
the next Exec. It should be up to the next Exec to determine what they want to communicate to
incoming students about studying law at McGill, and this draft steers them in a certain direction
which they may not wish to take. It should be noted that the Orientation Committee can do what it
wants.
• Alexander: Questions the value of this draft budget when the next VP Finance will have access
to previous years’ budget.
• Hersi: We are trying to have the next VP Finance benefit from our experience. The past budgets
only outline amounts, not their implications and whether those amounts were the right ones (for
example, we had too much alcohol at Pub Crawl and so the cost was higher than it could have
been).
• Maria: We are trying to make a statement and send the message that Orientation should cost
less.
• Michel: Encourage le fait que ce soit un enjeu de campagne pour les prochains candidats,
notamment les candidats au poste de VP Interne.
VOTE ON MOTION
• Majority in favour
• Two abstentions, some oppositions.
IV.
•
•
IN CAMERA MOTION (MOTION ON THE IMPLICATIONS OF A VOTE IN FAVOUR OF
A STUDENT STRIKE)
Moved by Guillaume (to go in camera)
Farnell: The motion is tangentially related to an ongoing referendum and this motion should be in
camera in the spirit of not disturbing the vote.
Decision is made to go in Deferred Camera: the minutes will not be disclosed until after the vote ends,
and members of LSA Council are prohibited from publicly discussing what we talk about now until after
the vote ends.
Motion on Acceptable Activities to Undertake during a Strike
• Moved by Farnell
• Seconded by Michel
Discussion
• Farnell: We have many students here who are from places where the culture of student protests
is not very present and who do not know what a strike entails (eg, not going to class, picket lines,
etc.).
• Léa: En faveur, mais avec un astérisque: dans un monde idéal, cette résolution ne serait pas
nécessaire, mais je comprends les visées pédagogiques d’une telle résolution.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
•
•
•
•
Marc: We need to address what will happen to graduate students registered in undergraduate
classes if the strike passes.
o Léa: The common understanding is that if an undergraduate class is on strike, then it
applies to all students registered in that class.
o Alyssa: Graduate students did not vote on the strike, so I don’t think it is fair for them to
be subject to the vote cast by undergraduate law students.
o Marc: This would especially be a problem for classes that are registered as
undergraduate but in which the majority of students are graduate students.
Michel: Si jamais la grève de deux semaines renouvelable passe, il y aura sûrement des
problèmes et des enjeux qu’on aura pas vu venir et à ce moment. Cependant, cette possibilité
reste très incertaine pour le moment; advenant que cette option passe majoritairement, on pourra
convoquer une réunion d’urgence et aborder les problèmes qui se posent.
Marc: Not sure on what the “binding” is supposed to mean.
Justin: We should remove “binding” and replace it with “expected”.
PROPOSAL OF AMENDMENT to first operative clause.
Clause PRE-PROPOSED AMENDMENT: “BE IT RESOLVED that the LSA Council understands a strike
mandate to include the following activity, binding on all members of the LSA”
Clause POST-PROPOSED AMENDMENT: “BE IT RESOLVED that the LSA Council understands a strike
mandate to include the following activity, expected of all members of the LSA”.
Discussion
• Léa is now against this motion.
VOTE
• Majority in favour; motion passes.
• Léa and Alexander opposed.
• Two abstentions.
(5) VARIA
•
•
None.
Thank you to everyone on Council for all their hard work over the past year!
(6)
•
•
•
MOTION TO ADJOURN
Moved by Alex
Seconded by someone.
Motion to adjourn adopted.
LAW STUDENTS’ ASSOCIATION
Faculty of Law, McGill University
3644 Peel Street, Montreal, QC, Canada, H3A1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179
ASSOCIATION DES ÉTUDIANT(E)S EN DROIT
Faculté de Droit, Université McGill
3644 rue Peel, Montréal (Québec) Canada, H3A 1W9
T: 514 398-6966 F: 514 398-2179