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NTAS 2015 Breakout Session: Pilot Supply & Demand Summit Next Steps, Tuesday
March 17, 2015
Darin Gruebel – ExpressJet
Ana Blanco – TRU Simulation
Bob Skinner – AAL
Nancy Shane – CapeAir
Jason Kopcsak (ERAU Prescott)
Paul Jergens (Sporty’s)
Dave Jones (WMU)
Others present as well
NTAS 2015 Outbrief Government Action Outbrief to Plenary:
Government Involvement (What does industry want?)
Support of the ACT ARC
Revisit of past FOQ recommendations
Revisit rulemaking of ATP/CTP
Qualifications of instructors
Written requirements versus ATP/CTP; sequence
Data provided to show training success
Data Projects
More credit for simulation and technology
AABI effort for standardized data collection (30+ schools)
Pilot Supply Study 4.0
Pilot Supply and Demand Summit inside the Beltway
Collaborative effort
Political leadership involvement
ATP/CTP Exemptions for Airline Industry.
Material integrated into current curriculum.
Tracked and monitored through AQP data
Increased scrutiny (pass/fail)
Tracking of part 61 elements within data collecting
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Funding / Loan payback
Market forces playing out
Pay / Bonus / Incentives / work rules
Financing options
Grants / Loans / Deferments
Industry “skin in the game”
Organizational Support for cost reductions
GAMA – (Taxation), A4A , AOPA , NATA, EAA
Detailed Discussion Notes:
Darrin – the problem arose about 3-4 years ago. Went to Capitol Hill to see what they could
do. The industry met after going to capital to create a plan that they could use to get the
GAO study. Barb Adams stated “be data driven, speak loud and clear to influence change”.
What do we want for change?
Who do we want to change?
Shorter term strategies to work with, whilst still listening to the law without changing it.
Get the public working towards the law makers more.
There may be an exemption into ATP/CTP, thanks to Doug (FAA)
It’s all about how it’s presented, be equal or greater in safety, and speak loudly.
REA can make a draft A4A can jump on.
Ana (TRU simulation) - Exceptions can be there if we can demonstrate proper training. If
you can demonstrate that there are devices that can complete what the FAA wants, then
they can work with it.
Nancy Shane – Cape air filed an exemption to have 1500 hour commercial pilots to be PICs
because they’re multi engine 135 operations. ATP CTP is a big hurdle for Cape. The training
doesn’t transfer to their fleet.
Exemption originally denied, back under review. There isn’t much risk for Cape for the
items.
Darrin – Need a proper approach. It needs to be done right or else it will be denied. Sell the
case, or else its going to be a waste of time.
Bob (AAL) – Agreed. Alternate pathways.
No need to worry about buying the extra sim.
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Jet Blue – An alternative pathway would turn the ATP in to an AQP curriculum. Must be
proven.
Jason Kopcsak (ERAU) – If you have the curriculum, having the test would make it more
stringent. Combine the AQP with ATP.
Increased scrutiny.
Envoy- They test for weaknesses, and go back to help to fix those problems.
Darrin – Take the elements and set it up to track the elements within the airline database to
see how well the airline is doing compared to the standards.
Enabling objectives tracked and then they can find where the problems lie to know when
and where to train.
Use the data to find the sweet spot for the best trained pilots. ABBI
Don’t direct all of the items to fix towards Capitol Hill, need to focus on the FAA also.
Make sure the FAA knows the movements that everyone is making so that it doesn’t seem
like they’re going behind their backs
The Colgan families are going to come out again, so try to work with them.
Have a pilot summit inside the beltway
Collaborative effort with everyone
Political leadership needs to be involved
Mid June
APLA stance – still stuck on pay and benefit issue. Not all pilots can fly for the airlines.
The ERAU survey has convinced that pay is one of the major reasons of a shortage
The summit should help drive the market for new pilots.
Pay: if enough money is thrown at it, it will attract attention.
Student loans are outweighing the payment
The solution isn’t within the airlines because they can’t really afford it
The solution relies within those who have a sum of money
Market forces playing out
Pay bonus and incentives
Financing options
Grants loans and deferments
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Aircraft certification
Make it easier, simpler, and less expensive
It’s easier to have one airplane that serves multiple purposes in a fleet
Long term: I don’t think that the long term is sustainable in 10-15 years
Overall cost is scaring the market away
May need to turn to light sport aircraft
Volume problem for the manufacturers
LSA is not capable for all
Partial primary replacement of the fleet
Standard airplanes (legacy) are becoming too expensive
The government will say “what are you doing to solve the problems?”
The manufacturers are attempting to subsidize some of their training aircraft in order to
prime the pump to fill the pipelines with pilots by creating a cheaper flight environment
There needs to be a cooperation between all of the airlines to make it better for the pilot to
live during his/her career
How to revise the AC to allow for better suited trainers to teach the simulation areas (ATP
simulations)
Blue ribbon committee enacted
Convince them by finding those sections of the AC and tell them why that’s making it worse.
Find alternative means of compliance
Exploring alternative options in order to convince law makers that airlines can create safe
pilots without having to have all of the stringent regulations
Patience, try not to do the blue ribbon as they are usually very politically weighted. Wait 612 months until things work out
Revisit past FOQ recommendations
Show if the ATP is really improving the pilots that are going through it
Revisit rulemaking of ATP/CTP qualifications
Type rating in simulation issues/ can’t be specific disconnect
Support the ACT ARC
Disconnect with taking the written after the ATP CTP Course
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Cater the ATP to the background of the pilot
Get data into actual facts in order to convince law makers.
Need more time to get a study on the ATP effectiveness because it is a new item?
The ATP is changing, there are questions added constantly
Regulation for rebates on avgas and such
Subsidizing loans that are used to buy planes
Two areas: Financing and Taxation
GAMA – (Taxation)
Final Discussions
Political –
 Possibly add finance reductions for simulations too
 Cleartodream.org
 ABBI meeting
Finance –
 8900 pilots needed in the US
Jeff Davis ERAU: “Sometimes the loans are readily available, but we need to consider the
payback side, now they have a place where you can defer your payment for 6 months,
or you can disinterest your payment. The bigger issue is that they still have the loans
that they have to pay back”
The taxes should be eliminated for students
Steve Jones “The parallel between the pilot and the medical professions and loans, you
can take your loans down the road a long way.”
Paul Jergens “There are programs that in other professions that have communities pay off
the loan. My dentist friend had his loans paid off because of the community he went in to. Is
there any communities that are losing business due to the pilot shortage that can take on
the loans of the student
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