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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage
handsaw….
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DISCLAIMER: Before the know-it-all armchair tool historians get
fired up and throw the M-WTCA handbook at me, I would like to
point out that these are not hard and fast rules. They are
generalizations for the layman to increase the chances of him
identifying a quality handsaw from a horse-manure one without
any further knowledge of saws. Here goes….
QUALITY
1) Brass nuts: I’m talking about the hardware that affixes the saw
plate (or blade) to the tote (or handle). If the nuts and bolts are
made of brass, it’s a mark of quality. Brass was the industry
standard from the dawn of handsaw manufacturing until about
the 1940s or so. After that period, steel became the standard.
http://thesawblog.com/?p=1004
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So I’ve put together the following method for identifying a quality
saw that literally anyone can use. You don’t need to know squat
about saws. In fact, about all you need to find a good one is at
least one working eyeball and just a touch of common sense (my
apologies to those deficient in this area). That said, we’re going to
divide our evaluation of old saws into two parts. First, we’re going
to talk about QUALITY from a manufacturing stand point, and
second we’re going to look at the CONDITION of the saw as you
find it. To find a good user saw, you’re going to have to take both
into account, and both have a specific set of criteria.
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Enjoy!
How’s that you say? Simple. The fact is that from about 1860 to
1940, there were hardly any poorly made saws in the
US. Competition and high demand in the 19th century and the
perfecting of mass production in the 20th century made almost
every saw made in America in this period a winner. You gotta
love the good ole days.
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I wrote this article for another website a few months ago, but
figured I would post it here now, as well in its entirety.
I get asked a lot of questions about old saws through the blog. A
common one I hear a lot is, “How do I pick out a good vintage
saw and avoid the garbage?” Some experts tell you to look for a
particular make of saw, but I’ve got a better method that doesn’t
play favorites or require you to even know who made a saw
(which can be tricky for the novice).
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with steel nuts (I love
mine), but it can be an indicator of a saw made after the point of
general decline in the quality of handsaws. It just so happens that
by the 1950s, quality in saws started to take a nose dive and by
that time, steel nuts were the standard.
9/8/2012
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2) Nib: The nib is a decorative bump filed into the steel plate of
the saw along the spine towards the toe (the narrow working
end). It is not used for starting a cut. It is not for securing a tooth
guard. And it’s definitely not for testing the temper of the saw
during manufacturing. Its decorative. Tradition is a force not to be
ignored in hand tool design, and tradition at the time said that all
handsaws have a nib as decoration. Period. End of story. And if a
saw has a nib, it means it was most likely made before the 1920s.
Once again, nothing necessarily wrong with a saw that doesn’t
have a nib, but if it does, it means it was made by a traditionconscious maker and you can bet your Panther head that he was a
good one. Further, it added a manufacturing step to the saw and
that cost the maker money. Manufacturers didn’t cut into their
profit margins unless they had good reason to: Quality!
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3) Skewback: This refers to the shape of the back of the saw
plate. In this case, the ‘skew’ means that from the area in front of
the tote to the toe of the saw, instead of a geometrically straight
line, the shape is concave. The skewback was patented by Henry
Disston in 1874 and revolutionized the handsaw industry. It was
intended to lighten the saw and bring its design into the modern
age. Disston took a great risk in deviating from the traditional
form, but it paid off in spades. Like most of his innovations, it
soon became the industry standard. It’s a mark of quality for the
same reason as the nib: it complicated the manufacturing
process and it is helpful in dating a saw. The skewback was the
handsaw to sell and to own from the 1870s until the
1920s. Again, this was the golden age of saw making in
America….you can’t pick a bad one!
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
The concave shape
along the length of the
saw is the skew
4) Lamb’s tongue: The lamb’s tongue is another decorative
element on the tote that comes from a long tradition of esthetics.
It’s that curved design in front of the hand grip that licks the
bottom of the handle web where the nuts affix the tote to the saw
plate. Once again, why is this a mark of quality? You guessed it: it
adds a manufacturing step and cost more money. And yes, once
more, as well, it helps to date the saw to the time of almost
universal quality in hand saws…in this case, about anytime before
the 1920s.
5) Tote shape: This one is unique from the four criteria above
because it is subjective, and because it requires you to hold the
saw in person. I don’t care how well made the saw is, how
perfectly tempered and smithed the saw plate is or how much it
cost, if the tote is not a proper and comfortable match for your
sweaty paw, then its nothing but a giant paint scraper. The tote
should fit your hand like a glove. The top and bottom horns
should snugly frame your palm and the round overs of the grip
should be broad and smooth. If your saw is not comfortable to
use, then you’re not going to use it.
CONDITION
Now that you know how to differentiate a quality saw from
a Quasimodo saw it’s time to evaluate its condition to ascertain if
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
it can ever be usable again. To evaluate condition, we’re going to
separate a saw into its three essential elements: the saw plate, the
tote, and the nuts. Each element has its own concerns and pitfalls
to avoid.
The Saw Plate: The two defects of concern with the saw plate are
pitting and kinks. You already know that rust eats steel, and for
saws, it becomes especially detrimental if the rust has
caused pitting in the saw plate. Heavy pitting along the
toothline will prevent some of the teeth from taking a keen edge.
The only remedy for this is grinding or filing away the teeth until
pit-free steel returns to the toothline, but since pitting is often
rampant, this is rarely a realistic solution. But the good news is
that short of pitting, even heavy rust can often be cleaned off to
reveal healthy steel below. Get to know what pitting looks like and
how to avoid it. If the pitting is localized and slight, don’t sweat
it…there’s plenty of other teeth to make up the work.
Kinks are another thing to be wary of on a handsaw. Kinks are
stresses, dents, and bends in the saw plate that prevent it from
being straight. Unless you want to saw like Picasso painted, try to
avoid kinked saws. Kinks can be removed by a skilled saw smith,
but unless you can find one, or can tackle it yourself, these saws
are best passed over. Removing kinks isn’t entirely too difficult,
but its a whole other learning curve.
The Tote: We’ve talked about how the tote needs to be
comfortable, but besides that, it also needs to be sound and
intact, or at least repairable. Broken horns are not a deal breaker…
you are a woodworker, after all, right? Repairing broken horns
and cracks in the tote should be fairly easy for you, but you
need to be willing to tackle them. Don’t tell yourself that even with
breaks or serious damage a tote is “usable”…you’re lying to
yourself and insulting the tool gods (yes…there are tool gods). Fix
it, or don’t buy it in the first place.
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
You may also find totes with dry rot, worm holes, sun damage,
syphilis, or any other number of epidermal maladies. Use your
judgement on these. I’d avoid worm holes and powder post
beetle damage (beetles love old beech!)…you don’t want to import
a cadre of these nasty little buggers into your shop. Trust me. But
don’t sweat a beat up or worn and cracked finish on the tote. It’s
uncommon to find completely intact finishes on totes, and in my
opinion, they’re not necessary to begin with.
This 1880s Disston #7
might look like hell, but it passes all of my tests for quality: Brass
nuts? Check. Lamb’s tongue? Check. Nib? Check. And the tote?
Perfect form….and nothing a little woodworking can’t repair.
The Nuts: All the nuts should be present…both sides. If the nuts
are the domed style and are missing a couple, that’s not a deal
breaker…they are easy to scavenge. But if they are split nuts (used
on saws mostly before the 1870s) and some are missing, it can be
a bear to find proper replacements. Plus, split nuts are delicate
and removing them is rarely straight forward. You can replace
missing split nuts with common domed nuts, but you’ll become so
tired of self-proclaimed saw experts lecturing you on how they
aren’t ‘proper’ that you’ll want to kill them, yourself, or both.
So that’s about it. No all that’s let to do is go out, find a bucket of
rust and try out that common sense you just discovered.
Enjoy!
-Matt
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5 Responses to “Picking a Winner: How to buy a
vintage handsaw….”
SCOTT SAYS:
JUNE 4, 2012 AT 9:04 PM
Could you point me to some decent
information/instructions/videos etc on straightening the saw
plate.
You say it “isn’t entirely too difficult” and I am trying to
learn how. But perfection is eluding me.
Thanks,
http://thesawblog.com/?p=1004
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
Scott MacLEOD
MATT SAYS:
JUNE 4, 2012 AT 9:16 PM
Hi Scott
Try this out…
http://thesawblog.com/?p=627
-Matt
SCOTT MACLEOD SAYS:
JUNE 5, 2012 AT 1:36 AM
Matt:
Thanks for that, and I already read it, and I use many of
your techniques. Although on smaller saws I use electrolysis
for a short time as it seems to sorta loosen up the rust.
My problem is with straightening a curved or mildly kinked
sawplate. I can make them better, and get them close. But I
can’t seem to make them straight.
Any suggestions gratefully received. No matter how off the
wall.
And I’ve had a copy of Hodgsons book for years and agree
with you totally.
Thank you,
Scott
MATT SAYS:
JUNE 9, 2012 AT 1:12 PM
Hi Scott
Smithing saw paltes is tricky…but it is doable. My
advise is to practice, practice, practice.
Here’s my recipe for beginners to maximize success
and minimize risk and frustration:
1) Use a 12 to 16 ounce hammer with a domed face.
I use my granfathers old machinists ball pein…but
NEVER with the ball side. Always the regular flat face
(slightly domed in reality)
2) Have an oily rag on hand and wipe the face of teh
hammer and the saw plate. Always keep everything
well oiled to prevent galling.
3) Use a block of end grain hard wood (I always had
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Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…. – The Saw Blog
9/8/2012
luck with white oak) as your anvil. A tree stump is
perfect. The bigger and more mass the better. Make
sure its firmly resting on a completely supported
surface. It should be rock solid. Before I had a proper
anvil, I used the end grain of the through tenon on
my Roubo style workbench.
4) Place the convex side of the kink/bow facing up
and hammer a bit at at time. Start with light blows
and make sure you keep the face square to the plate
so that you don’t make divots in the steel.
5) Experiment and remember: you can remove a
bow, but not a kink. The best you can do with hard
kinked steel is correct for it…not remove it.
Good luck!
MARK BROWN SAYS:
JUNE 6, 2012 AT 1:31 AM
Nice write up; thanks for the info!
-Mark
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