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Marriage Startup Episode 34
[Intro music]
LESLIE
Welcome to the Marriage Startup Podcast, Episode 34 - Podcastus
Interruptus, or Why It May Not Happen Naturally. In this episode we talk
about what it means to keep plans and goals flexible, and when to hold
your ground.
LAURA
That's just a fancy way of saying we need to change our podcasting
schedule, while still talking about important stuff like life and sex along the
way.
LESLIE
And of course we can't have an episode without the heart of the show, the
"What we're going to do for each other.”
LAURA
I'm your host, Laura Camacho, co-founder of Glimmering, partner of Wild
Goose Guidance, and the work-at-home mom of three kids who are gone
today [chuckles].
LESLIE
And I'm your co-host, Leslie Camacho, the Chief Espresso Officer of the
Camacho household, and man, have we needed a lot of espresso lately
[laughter]. Oh, man. All right, so we're going to - we're not actually sure
how - well, I guess when you download this you'll already know how long it
is, but as we're recording it now we're not sure how long this is going to be.
LAURA
Will this be the short show we always think we're going to have, or will we
string it out for an hour?
LESLIE
We've only had one of those, I think. Maybe two. In any case, let's start
with some news and updates, because we do have a couple of them. Why
don't you start with the first one?
LAURA
Sure. The theme music has been finalized, and it is currently being mixed
by someone who sounds like they really know what they're doing. It's very
flattering to have someone volunteer their time for us, but a big thank you
to our friend Lance Hamilton who created the music, and found the hookups for the mixer.
LESLIE
Yeah, and in particular I think I'm just really happy with how it turned out. I
know it's really different than the very Marriage-esque Pachelbel's Canon,
but there's something upbeat yet relaxing, and I really like how it captures
sort of a Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons Project, 70s vibe at the end, because
that really reminds me of you. It seems to capture you quite well.
LAURA
[chuckles].
LESLIE
Especially since you're wearing your sort of flower child -
LAURA
What?! [laughter]
LESLIE
- shirt today, and you've got your hair pulled back. You're very beautiful.
LAURA
Okay, well, I am a huge Pink Floyd fan so I'll take that as a compliment.
LESLIE
[chuckles] The other thing we want you to know about is I was interviewed
recently on the Show Me Your Mic podcast hosted by Chris Enns, and
Chris is the owner or - I don't know if he's the only owner, but he's one of
the owners of something called the Good Stuff Podcast Network. They
have a bunch of great shows. Show Me Your Mic is where he interviews
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other podcast hosts, and I've been a fan of that show for a long time, and
he has an open application process. So I just contacted him and said, "I'd
love to be on your show. Here's Marriage Startup and Haywire," and he
said, "Yeah, come on. I'd love to talk to you," and it was a great
conversation.
I got to go into a lot of my back story about why I want to do Marriage
Startup, and also into some of the production stuff that we do, and how the
show's actually made. Then we also get distracted by board games a lot,
which - I didn't know that Chris liked board games, so that was a welcome
surprise to the conversation.
LAURA
It was a surprisingly fun podcast to listen to for it being about technically
podcast gear, which I'm not really that interested. Like, show me the mic
I'm supposed to speak into, but I don't really care what it's named or how it
all works. But Chris is a really great host and he manages to make the
interview really interesting and fun.
LESLIE
Yeah. I've listened to the show for quite a while, and I've discovered a lot
of really interesting podcasts out there. I always learn a lot and typically
there's a fun story to be had in it as well. So we'll link to that in the show,
go check that out. I really enjoyed it and thank you again, Chris, for having
me. It was wonderful.
All right. Let's get into the main topic.
LAURA
Okay.
LESLIE
I'm not sure really how to explain it other than the last three weeks have
been just very challenging across the board. Just unexpected things
happening, and I think especially over the last week, at the risk of too much
information, there's been at least three times where you and I have just set
aside - you know, we found a moment in the middle of the everything. We
thought, "Oh man, the mood's right." We're trying to have some intimacy
on the spur of the moment.
LAURA
Mm-hmm.
LESLIE
[sighs].
LAURA
[chuckles].
LESLIE
And our son, bless his heart, has a radar.
LAURA
Yes.
LESLIE
He has a sex radar.
LAURA
[chuckles].
LESLIE
Where every time there's some intimacy going on, whether he's asleep or
awake, he comes and finds us.
LAURA
Yes.
LESLIE
And it's uncanny, and frustrating in many, many ways. And the show's not
actually about that, but I just felt like that's exactly the right analogy to
everything else that's going on in our lives. There's these other plans that
are great, that we've tried to schedule, that we've tried to do organically or
naturally, and it's just not happening.
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LAURA
Yeah.
LESLIE
This has everything from a death in the family, to having a super bad case
of allergies. I'm still congested, I'm still trying to hold in the cough.
[coughs] Case in point. And today's better than it has been in about a
week-and-a-half. A couple days ago it was really bad. I feel like I'm about
a week-and-a-half behind on work. I'm also feeling a little bit of impostor
syndrome on my coaching side because I'm telling people how to be
productive and stay with it and really get into routine, and I am off my game
for the last two weeks.
I haven't been doing my journals like I have, I've been off exercise. I've
just been completely out of sync, and especially since Friday, every time I
try to get back in sync it has gotten derailed for one reason or another. I'm
not healthy enough to start exercising again so I'll start exercising and then
feel terrible. I'll start journaling again and be really - or doing my
productivity journal and just get sidelined because it's overwhelming,
because I don't have the space to get back into it. I start thinking about
family again and then I start thinking about death, because that's been a
topic recently. Depression brought his big brother [chuckles].
So there's a part of me that was really tempted to get down on not just
myself but us and family. But that hasn't happened, and that's worth
talking about. Another great example would be this show. We wanted to
record this show on Saturdays and keep it released on Thursdays, and
every time we've attempted that it has been like pulling teeth to get it done
on weekends, and it's not working. It was causing resentment.
LAURA
Yeah. It was way too stressful.
LESLIE
Our initial approach was, "No, we're just going to shoulder through this.
There's circumstances in life preventing it, and next time it's going to be
better." There comes a point where when you say "Next time it's going to
be better" too many times, you realize that no, no, this is the norm in life
right now, and that's something that we just acknowledge this week. We
actually got about 50 minutes of a show on - when was it? Sunday?
LAURA
Yeah.
LESLIE
It's not even usable. We did it at the last minute, it felt crammed, and we
were 50 minutes in before we realized that no, we're - this is just not right.
It's not in the spirit of it, it's not the tone, it's just work. So we started
thinking about how to deal with that, and that led to a larger discussion on
how do we deal with all the other stuff going on.
That kind of sums up my view on the past two or three weeks, especially
the last week. What about you? What have the past couple weeks been
like for you?
LAURA
It has felt hard to get into a rhythm. I feel like the last two or three days I'm
starting to see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel of chaos and
upheaval, but I'm still - I totally fell off the 5 Minute Journal wagon over
spring break. I haven't opened it in almost three weeks now, I think, and
it's sitting there on my bedside table. I look at it every morning, and I look
at it every night [chuckles] and part of me just doesn't want to do it. Part of
me's like, "Meh, it's not worth it. Doesn't really do anything," and the other
part of me's like, "Oh yes it does, and you know it. It's worth the effort."
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LESLIE
We have 90-plus days of positive results.
LAURA
Yeah, yeah, but it just feels like, "Oh God, something else I have to invest
effort into," and I just - I'm running out of effort. The last month has been
very, very, very poor sleep again from Ethan. He must be going through
some sort of growth spurt, and he's up two or three times a night. Last
night he really didn't finally settle down for any length of time over 90
minutes until 1:00, and then he was up for the day at 4:30. So that was
how much sleep I've had, and I've had days upon days of interrupted
sleep.
[sighs] I think that's the hardest thing for me, is I can't - I don't have any
energy to create momentum. I'm just trying to get through the very bare
minimum of survival, to keep everyone healthy and fed, basically, until this
little blip of sleeplessness is over, and then I'll get my feet under me again.
So that - it really just comes down to sleep for me. It almost always does.
One thing I'm really proud about myself is that I have made exercising a
priority, even though I'm tired.
LESLIE
Yeah, you have been really good about that, in the middle of everything.
LAURA
I have run every single day this week except for today. I needed to rest
today because I just - I'm so drained. But I've been doing my running, and
I have integrated a kettle bell workout at the end of that. Whenever we
come out to your office to watch a show in the evening, I always do - I pick
up the 12-pound weights and I always make sure I do a few sets of
something with the weights out here. So usually that's the first thing that I
let go when I'm feeling really tired, but I know that I can't. It helps my
mood, it helps my energy levels. If I drop exercise I will probably just fall
completely off the map [chuckles].
LESLIE
So yeah, that describes what it's been like, and what I want to spend some
time talking through right now is that it feels like in the past couple days we
have started turning things around, starting on Sunday, starting after our
failed recording on Sunday.
LAURA
Mm-hmm.
LESLIE
We kind of had a reset and then it feels like we've made progress ever
since then. What I'd like to do is just talk through how we've started that,
and in particular if we see each other doing things that we weren't doing
before, or noticing things about ourselves that we weren't doing before
that's been helpful to us, because I know that this is usual. It doesn't
matter how much we invest in productivity or personal growth or all these
things, you can't prevent…
LAURA
Life [chuckles].
LESLIE
You can't prevent life. You can just deal with it better and better and better.
I really do feel like the things that hit us over the past three weeks would've
taken us out for months last year, and instead it took us out for maybe a
week-and-a-half. That is something to be celebrated, compared to where
we were when we started this podcast especially, and even more so before
that.
One of the things I see you doing this time around that's very, very different
is that you are - you seem to be asking for more help sooner without
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strings attached, without giving yourself strings attached. I can tell that's
been very good for you. This morning's a great example. I got up early
and my intention was to do some proposal work, or try to get myself back
in line. I had this Miracle Morning all planned out for myself. You were
already up and you're just like, "I'm going back to bed. Thank you for
watching Ethan."
LAURA
[chuckles].
LESLIE
And it wasn't really - you kind of made a sort of "Is that okay?" inflection at
the end. You might've even said it. But it wasn't really - it wasn't the
hesitant "He's probably going to say no so maybe I shouldn't be asking you
this". Six months ago, that conversation would've been like "I'm really
tired. How're you doing?" and you would've felt things out a little bit and
said, "If it's okay with you, if you're not doing anything important, I would
really like get more sleep, if it's okay, if you can watch Ethan? But if you're
doing something important work-related, I'll stay up and I'll do it, and I'll
just" blah-blah-blah.
LAURA
Right.
LESLIE
This morning was like, "I'm going back to bed, all right?" [laughter].
LAURA
I think I was a little more polite about it but -
LESLIE
We're going to dramatize it a little bit on the podcast. And for me, I was
like, "Oh man, I had my own stuff to do."
LAURA
[chuckles] I saw that look flash across your face too.
LESLIE
Yeah, but it only lasted for two seconds and it was like, "No, she really
needs this, and if I give her this now it's going to help me later, and I can
just bring my laptop in and I can be on the couch with Ethan, and I'll get in
kid time because that's on my list." So my brain immediately worked
through my list of priorities instead of what I had to do. Instead of a task
list, my brain has now been trained to act on a priority system, which is one
of the things that's really been helping me.
But I'll get to that a little bit more in a second. I just wanted to point out to
you that I love how you are acting on the authority you've always had, and
that you've owned it. It is so good to see you like that.
LAURA
Thanks. It feels really good to not be afraid of disapproval. That's really
what it is. Like, "Oh, Laura can't handle it. Now I'm taking on the burden."
Being a burden is a huge big fear I've had to overcome. So yeah, and
when I saw that look go across your eyes, you were like "[sighs] No, all my
plans!" because I knew that - because you had told me the night before
that you had a call at 7AM, and so I knew that here it was, 5:30, you were
going to want to spend that time eating your breakfast quietly, preparing for
your call, doing some stuff. And there I was like, "Here's a kid!" [chuckles].
LESLIE
"There's your son."
LAURA
See ya!
LESLIE
Deal with it.
LAURA
But I saw that look go across your eyes and I was like, "I'm worth it. He'll
be okay," and what was really awesome was that a car alarm across the
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street woke me up right before 7:00, so I got up and took over and you
could head out - I'm assuming head out for your call. You left right - you
were able to leave right at 7:00 without having to wake me up or anything.
LESLIE
Yeah, and so from my end, the reason that interaction was so good for me
is one, I love seeing you have that freedom because that was one of our
shared goals; that we wanted to give you that same freedom. But for me, it
also did not put me in charge of your feelings. It was just about what
needed to be done and how - and what the outcome of that would be, but it
wasn't caged in the "Oh, my feelings about our relationship for the rest of
the day are about to hinge on what you say."
For me, I could just simply evaluate it for what it is - can I really watch my
kid? I can run through my priority list and instead of wondering, "If I say
no, if Laura's going to be mad at me for the rest of the day, is that really
worth it?" Because of the tone and the authority you had in asking, I knew
that your heart wasn't on the line. Sleep was, your attitude in terms of and how sleep affects that, that was certainly on the line, but our
relationship, there wasn't anything involved in that in terms of a negative.
That was just like a huge amount of stress relief for me, and that let me
figure out the rest of the stuff.
And it's more than just this morning - you've been doing that on a regular
basis in a lot of different areas, and that is a really big change from where
we were when we started this podcast.
LAURA
Oh, yeah.
LESLIE
It has definitely taken getting used to, but now that we're more on the other
side of it more than the beginning of it, so worth it. I'll take the
authoritative, fully invested in yourself - hearing just you saying "Yeah, I'm
worth it"? Yes, yes, you are [laughter]. We both agree. Because you're
just more alive, and that's what I want. I want a partner who's alive.
LAURA
The thing that I've noticed you doing is pouring your energy into our kids
especially. I think part of that is because I've stopped gatekeeping so I'm
not trying to protect you from the stress of having kids. So they're just
there, they're part of the family, and you're there, you're part of the family,
so the dynamic is really different. Last night you spent a whole lot of time
helping Sophia learn how to rollerblade in the living room. Our precious
neighbor sent over a complete set of rollerblades and pads for Sophia,
because apparently they have the same foot size [chuckles]. Sophia's
super excited and she keeps insulting me, sort of inadvertently, about how
I am so not nearly as good as Daddy.
LESLIE
[chuckles].
LAURA
"Mommy, it's like you've never done this before! It's like you've never
taught anyone to ever rollerblade." I'm like, "I haven't." She's like,
"Daddy's so much better at this than you. I'm going to go ask Daddy if he
can help me." Because you've stepped up into a much more interactive
dynamic with the kids on a regular basis, on a day-to-day, all the nitty-gritty
stuff, those big special milestone sorts of things are also yours, and your
kids' hearts are yours in a way that maybe haven't been in the past year.
LESLIE
Yeah, that's very true. It was very, very unusual for Sophia to talk about
me in that sort of way in any capacity, not just roller skates but any
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capacity before. Same thing with Alana and Ethan too. They've just - they
feel a lot more free to show up and "Hey, Daddy, can we play Minecraft in
the office?" or "Can we go for a walk?" I can tell that they feel a freedom
about it.
I want to describe what my approach has been, because it's working so far.
And again, it's based on the commitment - on the theory, really, that I
wanted to test at the beginning of the year. That's to put my priorities in
terms of what is most important versus a task list, or specific goals. So it's
priority, goals, tasks, in terms of how I cascade how I approach things.
When I first realized that I wasn't getting back in sync with stuff, I really
tried to go all-in in how I was going. As I stepped back, I looked at it and I
was like, "Man, I was actually doing a lot to keep myself healthy and
growing personally and professionally." The 30-Day Miracle Challenge, I
did that for 60 days, and that's ten things pretty involved every day. Not a
lot of time but a lot of effort to do it, and there was a lot of reward on the
other side of it.
But what I noticed is that it suddenly felt very overwhelming to get that and
the client work, and then I started getting down on myself. Then I asked
myself "If I was my client, what would I do?" Well, the first thing I do with
every client is say, "I just want you to commit to two things every day, as a
starting point to build back up momentum. You're going to do more than
two things every day, but there's two things because I want you to get easy
wins and I want you to get in the habit of building back up your wins." So I
started doing that on Monday.
I was thinking, "All right. So what else would I tell my clients? Well, you
want to start with your priorities." My priorities are God and myself, so the
first thing I did is I made sure I was reading Scripture every day and
praying in the mornings. I started Monday with just that commitment, and
then I added in - past that, I added in, "Okay, I need to do something for
myself because I know that I don’t recharge myself."
For that part, the thing that I gave myself was just releasing the burden of
trying to get back into everything at once. So the first day it was just "No,
you don't have to do anything except recover. You can just sit between
work and not feel pressure to do it. Just let yourself recover, let yourself
sift through it." Then on Wednesday I was able to add exercise back into
the mix. But actually before exercise, I added kids back into the mix.
I was like, "I want to make sure I'm interacting with the kids every day," so I
made sure I was taking Sophia to school when I needed to, I made sure I
met her at the bus stop even if it meant saying no to a client call, which it
did, that I was able to read The Hobbit to them in the evenings or help with
roller skates or watch TV in the evenings with them. Then I added work
back in, and catching up.
I was still doing client work through all this, but in terms of judging myself
or in terms of how I was trying to get back on track, work came after all
those things, and yesterday I felt back at work. I'd been doing work prior
but I felt like I'm doing good work again. Then this morning, we were able
to have the interaction, I was able to take over, I was able to sit down and
spend an hour on a proposal, I was able to prepare for my new ventures
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meeting, I was able to watch my son, I had breakfast, I still had my quiet
time, I got my affirmations in, I got my visualization in.
So I've been able to now be up since 4:30 and had all this stuff done, and
as I look back at it now I was like, "Wow! I didn't intend to be this way but
because I did my" - and I think that I have the priority system to thank for
that, to go in and just keep my priorities straight. So I'm feeling really good
about how we're handling it right now.
I'm suppressing a cough [laughter]. Oh, dear listeners, thank you for the
cough. I'm not sure I can edit all those out. I'll try to get the worst ones
out.
All right, so - oh, you know what we forgot? We actually - say what the new
schedule is. So this all goes back to how it affects the podcast, because
actually the catalyst of this whole conversation was how does this affect
the podcast.
LAURA
Right.
LESLIE
Historically speaking, starting from the beginning of the year, our best
shows when we feel about it have been recorded Wednesday mornings,
and so we're just going to keep Wednesday/Thursday mornings as time
allows. Or actually Wednesday afternoons or Thursday mornings -
LAURA
Yeah, as soon as the babysitter comes on Wednesday afternoon.
LESLIE
We feel the most prepared, it helps to me halfway through the week so we
have a perspective on the week, and we're also catching up with each
other but it's also enough time to have evaluated how we're doing. So
when we gave ourselves the grace to revisit the schedule, it became clear
that the pressure was to record on Wednesday or Thursday and then
publish right away. We don't want the crunch between recording and
publishing, and so we just said, "Why don't we change when we publish?"
What we're going to do is we're going to record on Wednesdays or
Thursdays like we have been, but we're actually going to publish new
shows on Monday evenings, so late Monday or early Tuesday is when you
can expect new episodes. That's going to start this Monday. So this
episode's coming up on Thursday as usual, and Episode 35 will be out
Monday evening. We've got that one planned and written already, and
we'll get it recorded. So on your end there's no skip in the programming,
because that was really important to keep the consistency going.
So that's the announcement. That's a 27, 28 minute way of saying we're
moving to Monday evenings [laughter] and here's all the back story and
reasons why, in the hopes that it will help you be gracious to yourself, and
when life gets tough that you can be flexible. What we're learning right
now is that the key to that flexibility is starting by priorities, not tasks, and
then build up through easy wins, get the momentum going again, and just
give yourself the time to rebuild and regain momentum. Because that way
you don't stay stagnant - just take that one step and keep going.
Anything else you want to add to that?
LAURA
No, that's it. It's all good.
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LESLIE
All right. That said, we're going to take a short break now with a few
seconds of Lance's beautiful music, and we'll see you on the other side
with what we're going to do for you this week.
[Break music]
All right, and we're back with what we're going to do for each other this
week. This is the part of the where we're proactive in how we're just going
to do something, I don’t know, helpful to the relationship, but mostly for the
other person more than anything else. I feel like I fumbled over that - sorry,
first-time listeners.
You've got a twinkle in your eye!
LAURA
It's nothing [laughter]. Really.
LESLIE
Do you want to go first or do you want me to?
LAURA
Sure. We'll save the best for last. So this is super small and it seems
really insignificant, but I think you're going to appreciate it because it's
something you don't think of doing yourself, but you love it when it's done.
I'm going to clean your glasses for you [laughter].
LESLIE
Yes. Yes, I really do, and no, I rarely - I don't really think about it until
they're, like, "Hey, am I getting cataracts?" Yes, that would be very, very
welcomed and appreciated.
What I'm actually going to do for you this week is that we haven't had a
chance to make good on last week, because Monday we were supposed
to go see Furious 7 but Ethan was sick, so he couldn't go to the sitter's.
There is a showing at 12:15 that we can squeeze in right before we need
to pick the kids up, and we have not had any date time this week. What
we learned is that if we don't get our date time in before the weekend, it
doesn't happen because there's no weekend dates.
Since I've been working at 4:30 and I have all of my - I have one
commitment. I have an appointment at 2:30'ish so I may literally have to
run back to the theater and keep my 2:30 appointment, and then I have a
document that I need to write for my business partners but I can handle
that this evening because it's not due until Sunday, I just want to get it done
today.
So let's keep the priority thing going. Assuming that fits in your schedule
with what you need to do, I would like to end the podcast, say our
goodbyes, and go catch a movie with you. Play hooky [chuckles].
LAURA
That sounds really good. There's always things on my to do list but you
are my priority, and Vin Diesel is also pretty special too.
LESLIE
Yes. Yes, he is. No arguments from me.
LAURA
So yeah, let's go watch a movie.
LESLIE
All right. That sounds like a fantastic plan.
That's going to do it for us this week. We hope you enjoyed the show. We
would love to know how you stay flexible when life really hits you, what has
worked to help you recover quickly? And not just quickly but also in a
helpful, holistic way. If you have tips, suggestions, stories to tell us, we
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would love to hear from you. You can email us directly at - oh my
goodness, I'm so sorry, my voice is getting worse and worse.
You can email us directly at [email protected] and anything you
email us there will be private, unless you do explicitly tell us otherwise. Or
you can post it on Facebook. We have an active little Facebook
community that's growing. I'm surprised by how more important Facebook
has become in my life versus Twitter ever since starting this podcast. I
have a whole new view on Facebook. I still think they're draconian and evil
but I love the people on it [laughter].
Anyway, Facebook rant aside, you can find us on Facebook at
facebook.com/marriagestartup, and you can also find us on Twitter, which
we've actually been posting to a little bit, at @marriagestartup.
And if you love the show and you want to help spread the word, or you
want to hold us to task for something in a more public, critical way, you are
welcome and invited to do that by leaving us a review and rating at iTunes.
That also helps spread the word on what we can do, and you can do that
by going to marriagestartup.com/itunes.
Laura's reminding me that we are starting to consider sponsorships and
accept donations to keep the podcast going, since we are now looking at
this as a non-profit that we want to just grow to really help people who are
growing a business and taking their relationship just as seriously, even
more seriously at the same time, to just keep you healthy.
If this is your first time listening to the show, again we want to remind you
that we use the term "marriage" because that is - culturally, it's the most
accepted but what we really mean is your long term commitment to the
person you wake up next to. If you call that marriage, that's awesome. If
you don't call it marriage, that's awesome, so long as you keep that
commitment. We want to hear from you, however that works for you.
All right. You will hear from us early next week, late Monday night or early
Tuesday morning, depending on your time zone. Thank you, guys, and as
always, be kind to each other.
[Outro music]
www.MarriageStartup.com
Transcript by Siobhán at SED Transcripts ([email protected])
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