Document 191140
Episode #017: Gauher Chaudhry Reveals How to Get Super Cheap Traffic with PPT Troy Broussard: Hello and welcome back to the Top Marke4ng Strategies Podcast. This is Troy Broussard and I’m joined by Mike Pereira and a special guest here today, and also a really good friend of ours, Gauher Chaudhry. Gauher Chaudhry is very well-‐known in the industry as the father of pay-‐per-‐view traffic or PPV. In fact, you may know him from his very successful product, Pay Per View Formula. And Mike and I jokingly refer to him as the Godfather of Pay-‐per-‐view Traffic [laughs] so we’re going to be talking to the Godfather here today. I know you’re going to get a ton of informa4on out of these three episodes that we’re spending with Gauher. In fact, we are really going to stretch it out into three instead of trying to push it all into one because there’s just so much to cover. So we’re going to talk to Gauher about Pay-‐per-‐text adver4sing. We’re also going to talk to him about non-‐Google pay-‐per-‐click adver4sing. Then of course, we’re going to spend a bunch of 4me talking about PPV, or pay-‐per-‐view. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 1 of 13 PPV is something that Gauher is so well-‐known for that he actually invented the term PPV. It used to be called CPV and he just went out and created a product that was so awesome that it redefined the en4re niche and changed the name. Everybody now refers to it as PPV. He’s got a tremendous wealth of knowledge in all three of these areas and Gauher Chaudhry has spent tens of thousands of dollars in a single day, 50,000 and up driving his own traffic to affiliate and CPA offers, and he’s really one of these quiet traffic guys. He doesn’t work with clients, he doesn’t take clients on, he has his own products, training, teaching and membership sites. He really just focuses on working behind the scenes driving traffic to his own offers and that’s the way he likes it. I’ve got to tell you, it’s a preUy nice model. Nobody to deal with, no outsourcers, no employees, no clients you have to sa4sfy and it’s a preUy sweet gig. So what we’re going to start in on this series is Pay-‐ per-‐text adver4sing, or PPT adver4sing. That’s what we’re going to start with here today. We’ve known Gauher, Mike and I both have, for several years and worked with him now for the last couple of years on a variety of different projects. We’ve promoted some of his products, while he’s promoted some of our products and met him in person out at one of Ryan Lee’s events and spent some 4me with him, so we’ve had a long term rela4onship with Gauher and he’s just one of the greatest guys in the industry because he’s just completely down to earth, sincere and just gives you a ton of value in every conversa4on or training product you’ll ever get from him. So I really look forward to this three-‐part series and I know you’re going to get a lot out of it. So without further ado, let me turn things over to Gauher. Gauher Chaudhry Interview on PPT (Pay Per Text trafDic) Troy Broussard: Gauher, if you could, why don’t we just start out with a quick explana4on of what PPT is all about. I know that PPC is very popular – pay-‐per-‐click and AdWords – but PPT, pay-‐per-‐text, is not as well-‐known, and I know that a lot of our listeners may be hearing about it for the very first 4me. So maybe if you could just start out with a quick overview. Gauher Chaudhry: Sure Troy. Well first, thanks for having me here. Pay-‐per-‐text is basically synonymous to in-‐line text ads. At some point, you have seen an in-‐line text ad and you might not even known it for what it was for un4l you took your mouse and hovered it over a keyword or keyphrase that appears in an ar4cle that seems to be hyperlinked, and you think it’s going to a link but lo and behold when you hover your mouse over that link, an ad pops up. This can be a text ad, banner ad or a combina4on of text and a banner. Basically, what this is is a pay-‐per-‐text ad. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 2 of 13 People like me and dozens, hundreds and thousands of other adver4sers tap into pay-‐per-‐text networks that provide this type of adver4sing. One of the biggest networks that provide this, and a lot of people who’ve been around in internet marke4ng for a while have heard of Kontera. They’re probably one of the oldest, but there are other companies you can tap into, such as 50onRed.com, Infolinks.com, Trafficvance.com and all of these ad networks all sell in-‐line text ads or pay-‐per-‐text ads where you can get an enormous amount of traffic, especially if you’re bidding on generic one-‐word keywords. Troy: Okay, so that’s really interes4ng. It’s very obviously keyword driven so you should be able to target your audience very specifically with those keywords. Do you have the ability to select the partner sites and stuff on the networks that you go to as well, Gauher, or how do you refine down the approach with it? Gauher: Well really, it varies from one network to the next. For example, if you were to adver4se on let’s say 50 on Red or Trafficvance, they basically don’t have any partners. They control the en4re traffic on their networks so that way, you don’t really have to worry about selec4ng or blocking poor partners. Whereas on Infolinks.com or Kontera.com, they’re basically partner aggregator networks where they have thousands of publishers who are carrying their feeds or javascript so that keywords within their content gets hyperlinked and your ad basically pops up. It varies from network to network, but like I said – I mean depending on the network you go to – you can get an enormous amount of traffic bidding on specific keywords and we’ll talk about some of the caveats before ge^ng started with pay-‐per-‐text as we go through this. Troy: Yeah, please. Let’s do that a liUle bit. So clearly, every traffic source is going to have its own pluses and minuses, and I would imagine that cost on this is probably preUy low per click, but then you may have some other issues to deal with as well. I would love to hear your comparison of this to some of the tradi4onal traffic sources out there and what some of the pros and cons are. Gauher: Well, I think some of the things that might excite you, Troy and Mike is that you could go to a network like 50onRed.com and could buy Brazilian traffic all day and all night for a penny. I know that you’re in Brazil, Troy, and you know what the market needs in Brazil, so if you could come up with a good product or service that appeals to the online Brazilian market and go out there and get traffic for a penny, then you’re going to go out there and go gangbusters trying to get that traffic. The caveat with pay-‐per-‐text in-‐line adver4sing – and I’ll throw out a scenario out at you Troy and you tell me what’s wrong with this, okay? – if you’re promo4ng let’s say a home improvement offer, and keeping in mind that pay-‐per-‐text is going to scan the ar4cle and look at what words are being bid on or adver4sed on. And it will hyperlink that par4cular keyphrase or that keyword. Now, if you’re promo4ng Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 3 of 13 let’s say a home improvement offer and you bid on the keyword “home”, tell me what the issue is going to be with that, Troy. Troy: Well yeah, you’re not specific enough there to narrow it down. Gauher: Well, when people see that on a page, they see the word “home” underlined and hyperlinked, what do you think the issue is going to be? Troy: They’re expec4ng perhaps a naviga4on on the system itself, on the site itself. Gauher: Exactly. They think they’re going to go to the home page of that par4cular website. Because here’s the thing, when somebody hovers their mouse over a hyperlink, there is what you would call let’s say a millisecond delay before that ad actually pops up. And you know and I know that when you click on a hyperlink, you some4mes don’t wait that extra millisecond. You just click on it whether you see the ad or not. So in some cases, you have to be very careful on what keywords you bid on. I have had my share of lessons by bidding on keywords like home, download, and register where people cogni4vely are thinking that a different ac4on is going to happen. And I’ll be honest with you Troy, I’ve made a lot of money bidding on keywords like download and register, but at the end of the day, the adver4ser comes back and they say, “What is all of this?” You’ve got all of these leads but none of them know what they signed up for and they’re not interested. Because when you’re bidding on a keyword like register and they’re taken to a CPA offer that looks basically like a registra4on form, they think they’re registering for something that they didn’t need to, based on the previous site they were on. In that case, you have to be a liUle bit careful. Now, in my experience, obviously, the two-‐word keyphrases convert like gangbusters. They convert the best because any 4me we have a two-‐word keyphrase, you’re much more specific than if you were bidding on a single keyword. It’s the single keywords that will bring in the bulk of the traffic if you’re bidding on a keyword like car, airport, signup or subscribe. Even brand names like Ne8lix or something like that. That will bring in a considerable amount of traffic. Will it necessarily bring in the right number of conversions? You won’t know un4l you really test, but that is generally where the bulk of the traffic is, with the one-‐word keywords, and it takes a lot of tes4ng and tracking. I’ve had some clients build en4re 5-‐figure monthly incomes by just driving one-‐word keyword traffic from a lot of these pay-‐per-‐text networks. Troy: Yeah, that’s insane. So you’re saying as soon as you get beyond two keywords in the phrase that you’re going to see diminishing returns? Is that what I’m kind of reading between the lines here, that three or four-‐word keyword phrases are just not going to bring enough traffic to be worthwhile? Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 4 of 13 Gauher: No, they usually aren’t. It’s not like pay-‐per-‐click marke4ng where those are considered long tail keywords, and yeah, they might get less search rank, but they’re going to convert like gangbusters. With in-‐line text adver4sing when you’re star4ng to bid on 3, 4 or 5-‐word keyphrases, you’re going to see very liUle traffic. That’s because there’s generally going to be somebody out there who’s bidding on a two-‐word keyphrase that is part of your three-‐word keyphrase. They’re generally going to get more traffic than you are because the system’s going to look at that and hyperlink them before they hyperlink you. And it’s especially hard since you have to think from the perspec4ve of how does content on words appear within an ar4cle? If somebody is looking for a solu4on to acne and they put in something like free acne bo;le or something like that, do you generally see those words within an ar4cle in any sort of way? Not generally, no not really. You have to be bidding on keywords in the sense where if you’re going to go three or four-‐word keyphrases, you have to bid on a phrase you think would appear generally in an ar4cle or within content before it can get hyperlinked. Does that make sense? Troy: Yeah, absolutely. Mike Pereira: Yeah Gauher, I actually have a ques4on about that. You men4oned that you get a millisecond between the 4me where you actually click on the word and you’re going to get an ad. An ad that’s popped up is basically a text ad, kind of an AdWords type of ad where you get to put a liUle blurb in there to en4ce people for the click, is that correct? Gauher: Yeah, it could be a text ad, Mike, it could be a text/image ad combina4on, it could be an image ad. Believe it or not, if you go to places like Vibrant Media, you can actually put in video ads. Mike: Oh wow. Now those ads, considering most people are going to go out there and think it looks like a hyperlink, in your tes4ng, has the ad really made a big difference or is the keyword more important than people are clicking on that keyword regardless of the ad or a combina4on of both. How does that work? Gauher: It’s generally the keyword. Because of that delay, some4mes they see the ad, but by then, they’ve already clicked on the link and you’ve already been charged. So some4mes, you’ve got to be really careful. But like I said earlier to you guys, you can get away with it when you’re paying for Brazilian traffic at a penny. You know what I mean? Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 5 of 13 If you’re promo4ng, let’s say a die4ng offer in Brazil for $39 as your commission, then you can afford to get two conversions for every 3,900 clicks on that keyword, whether it’s relevant or not. Because as long as you’re making money – and I’ve had guys, had experience myself and had clients who’ve bidded on the most bizarre keywords yet they’ve converted gangbusters for them. I had one guy who was in the interna4onal market and was ge^ng traffic for a penny, and he was bidding on the most ridiculous keywords. We were running along and he was making close to about $1,000 a day and my whole worry was that the network was going to eventually come back and tell him your lead quality is really poor, nothing’s backing out, you’re going to have to stop. To my surprise, he came back and said that the network’s come back, they love the traffic, they want more, and they actually increased his commission on a per-‐ lead basis. You never know. At the end of the day, they might click on the keyword, but if they know what they’re filling out on the next page, and it’s something that’s somewhat relevant to the keyword and it en4ces them to fill it out, you can really make this thing work and really scale it large. Mike: That’s awesome. You know, that leads me to my next ques4on about the ad approvals. Do you get these same restric4ons you get with the ads for these types of networks that you would get such as in AdWords or is it… Gauher: No way. Most people are flocking to these types of places because, Mike, the traffic is so cheap and there are very few restric4ons. The biggest restric4ons I see are you can’t send them to an offer where there’s a download because a lot of this traffic is driven by downloadable toolbars, so these guys don’t want you sending traffic to their compe4tors or sending traffic to pages where people download something else that might mess up with their download applica4on. Because generally, when you’re scanning an ar4cle and you start seeing things that are hyperlinked, that generally means that you might have sojware installed on your computer like Adware that’s automa4cally hyperlinking the content. It’s all different from various networks. Kontera works very different than 50 on Red and Trafficvance where on 50 on Red and Trafficvance, they install an applica4on on people’s computers and that’s how they can display these ads. Whereas Kontera and Infolinks.com, they’re an aggrega4on of let’s say 10-‐ 15-‐or 20,000 publisher websites, so the user doesn’t have to worry about having Adware on their computer in order to see the ads. They just have to have the publisher carrying those ad codes on their webpages in order to hyperlink the text. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 6 of 13 It varies from network to network, but like you said and just to answer your ques4on Mike, there’s no quality score. It’s money that walks the talk. If you’re going to be the highest bidder, guess what, you get number one placement. You get the most traffic. Troy: That was interes4ng to hear your analogy of short keywords versus long tail and how that affects and it makes a lot of sense what you’re saying. People are going for the volume so they’re outbidding you on those shorter one and two-‐word keywords, so even though you could get more targeted traffic and those keyphrases of three or four words may be out there, you’re going to get outbid for them. You’re not going to get the volume based on it, so that was a really interes4ng thing because it’s a liUle bit counter-‐intui4ve to somebody that’s used to the PPC model for example. Gauher: It’s very different from pay-‐per-‐click and that’s the thing that I want to (clarify). Even though you’re charging on a per-‐click based, people have to understand it’s a different mentality and a different mindset. It was interes4ng because at one of my seminars, one of the things we did there was offer free cameras to people who came up to the mic with some of the most unique traffic genera4ng ideas. One young guy, I think his name was Hazaz, he came over with a great sugges4on. He recommended that on these pay-‐per-‐text networks, there’s no such thing as quality score. What’s to stop you from dropping 50,000 to 75,000 of the most popular one-‐word keyword English phrase keywords, such as the, a and maybe every leUer of the alphabet – and I’ve tested this – and just sit back and watch and see what happens. Because maybe 50,000 of those keywords won’t pan out but what if those other 25,000 keywords do bring in a huge amount of traffic that actually converts for you? And it’s funny because some4mes when I look at the sta4s4cs, the one-‐day sta4s4cs guys on some of these ads that I’m running, I see as much as 3 million impressions… Troy: Holy cow. Gauher: …For a single campaign. I’m thinking to myself, yeah, the click-‐through rate might be a liUle bit dismal compara4vely speaking, but to get that kind of exposure, you can get into really crea4ve marke4ng. Troy, I know you know everything, you and Mike must have heard of pay-‐per-‐call on some of the trainings that I’ve done. If you’re ge^ng three million impressions, what’s to stop you from running a banner with a 1-‐800 number on that banner, and you only get charged when somebody actually clicks on it, but to get that type of inventory and get that type of exposure, that’s great for branding and it’s great for running a call to ac4on right off the banner that doesn’t require a click. Troy: Yeah, that’s just some wild stuff that gets you thinking in a lot of different direc4ons. I can see why you get excited about it for sure. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 7 of 13 Now, let’s take this up for the small businessperson ge^ng started with this who has never had any exposure to it before. Is this adver4sing source friendly to someone just ge^ng started? In other words, can you get in with a small budget, $500 or less kind of budgets, or is this something you’ve got to walk in the door with $2,000, $3,000 and $5,000 budgets on? Gauher: No, 50 on Red, you can get started for about $500. Trafficvance, I think it’s $1,000. Infolinks.com, they have a managed service now because their self-‐serve plaporm is undergoing some changes, but I think you can get started there for about $250 to $500. Kontera, I’m not too sure. They make you jump through a lot of loops, and I know I had to put down a budget of about $2,500. Your best bet is probably 50 on Red or Trafficvance if you want to get started on a small budget. Troy: Okay, well that’s awesome. I’m sure you can set caps and daily spends and all of those things to protect your exposure as well, right? Gauher: Yeah, they have all those goodies. Mike: One more ques4on. Do you find that there are specific offers that convert beUer? Is this more about targe4ng a region, or is this just good for all sorts of traffic? Gauher: I think it’s good for all sorts of traffic, but you have to understand that a lot of these people are clicking on a keyword with a different expecta4on. If you’re bidding on keywords that are maybe not quite relevant to what you’re offering, if you’re promo4ng an offer that generally converts with a broader audience, such as die4ng or biz-‐op, then you’re going to have great success with that. Because even if the person didn’t mean to click on your ad, promo4ng a broad-‐based type offer like die4ng, self-‐ improvement or biz-‐op, those can convert very nicely, especially when you get into traffic for as cheap as a penny for some countries. You can literally blow through thousands of clicks and not have to worry about losing any money if you’re just going to get a conversion for every 2,000 clicks. Troy: Great stuff. Do you have any last 4ps or last bits of informa4on you want to pass on to our subscribers here on PPT before we transi4on, Gauher? Gauher: I think the biggest 4p that I can give them is that this traffic source is s4ll very much in its infancy, so if people really want to jump on it now and get a hoard of traffic to their website, their lead-‐ gen offer, squeeze page or whatever they’re promo4ng, now is beUer than ever to do it. Troy: Yeah, I know it’s really powerful because with so many things, they have a window of opportunity and those windows start to close and it’s not that it’s not going to work, but it just starts to get progressively less effec4ve as people get more used to it and get more on-‐board. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 8 of 13 We’ve certainly seen that in Google AdWords, which makes a perfect transi4on into our next topic here, which is Non-‐Google Pay-‐per-‐click Traffic. I know that is something that you have spent a lot of 4me and effort on, Gauher, so I’m excited to talk to you about that. Because Mike and I have been bit by the Google creatures a few different 4mes and the reality is, they’re ge^ng preUy hard to deal with anymore with all of their quality scores, PPC and all of their adver4sing guidelines, etcetera. So I know you’ve been really a pioneer in going out and finding non-‐Google alterna4ve pay-‐per-‐click models. I’d love to hear what you say to that. Gauher: Well, Google used to be very user-‐friendly. And it’s unfortunate because it was really the affiliates who built Google AdWords to where they are today. I think that once Google got to this side, they realized they don’t really want affiliates, they just want product owners and real brick and mortar businesses adver4sing with them. Like you said, they’re basically boo4ng the affiliates out. In a way, it was good. I’ve been biUen by the Google AdWords demons also. I s4ll have a couple of AdWords accounts running, but I don’t run a majority of my pay-‐per-‐click traffic through Google anymore, because Google’s forced me to be a bit smarter and start looking for traffic sources outside of Google. For people who think that Google is the end all for traffic, it’s certainly not true. I think they’re just a drop in the bucket when it comes to traffic genera4on or paid traffic genera4on online. What it actually forced me to do, Troy, was to really buckle down, learn all of these other non-‐Google pay-‐per-‐click search engines. My first recommenda4on is that everybody, if you’ve had trouble on Google or you’re sick and 4red of their quality score rules or their ad approval process, that the best alterna4ve probably in my opinion is Bing Ads, which was a collec4ve merger of the old MSN Ad Center and Yahoo Search Marke4ng because number one, they do have rules, they do have quality scores, but not nearly as rigid as the way Google AdWords is. In my opinion, I have found that Bing Ads converts much beUer than Google AdWords when it comes to running campaigns. Although the traffic is s4ll compe44ve and pricey, it’s not nearly as pricey as it would be if you were buying the traffic on AdWords. And since Bing does control at least 30% of the search market, you s4ll can get a considerable amount of volume by se^ng up campaigns on Bing Ads. Next to Google, that’s the best alterna4ve for people who want to do any sort of pay-‐per-‐click adver4sing, especially local marketers who want the ability to localize within a pay-‐per-‐click marke4ng plaporm. Bing Ads is probably your next bet. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 9 of 13 Now, what are the other alterna4ves outside the big two, Bing Ads and Google AdWords? There’s quite a few second-‐4er, what they’re called second-‐4er search engines out there, such as 7search, LookSmart, Pulse 360, AOL, AdSonar, AdverFse.com, Adknowledge.com and what’s the other one, it’s owned by Marchex, it’s called Adhere.com. So there are other pay-‐per-‐click search engines out there. They all have very different plaporms, but the bit prices are as low as a penny that you can go out and get good old pay-‐per-‐click penny traffic from a lot of these second-‐4er pay-‐per-‐click search engines. Does that make sense? Troy: Yeah, absolutely. I think the point that you made about local traffic and local adver4sing is really spot on as well for the typical average small business that’s looking to get the most bang for their buck in their adver4sing. They’re typically not going to have huge budgets where they can’t get enough traffic for their budget anyway. So being able to get an easier ad approval process and probably get the traffic that they need in terms of volume and an easier process all around, for a lot of small businesses, that makes a lot of sense to me. Gauher: Before I forget, even some of the pay-‐per-‐text networks like 50 on Red you can actually localize your ad right down to city level. Even some of the pay-‐per-‐text networks give you the ability to do that and when it comes to pay-‐per-‐click marke4ng, your alterna4ves outside of Google, your best alterna4ves for people who want to market to a local market are really Bing Ads and Facebook PPC. Those are probably the two best sources to get localized traffic. You take Bing and Facebook combined and that could easily replace a lot of Google AdWords traffic that you might have lost in the past. Troy: Yeah, that’s a great point, Gauher, and I really like the way that you think about this in the sense that no one traffic source is really what you should be depending on. It’s about how to make the diversifica4on cross to a lot of different traffic sources and how, as you just said, you can replace one traffic source with maybe these two or three others and combine them together and get a replacement for the lost traffic that you may be suffering. So I think that’s a great place to go ahead and cut this segment because I know we’re going to spend the en4re next episode all on Non-‐Google Pay-‐per-‐click Traffic. I wanted to really thank you, Gauher, for spending some 4me with us here today and we look forward to you next week on our next episode. So for Mike and Troy’s Top Marke4ng Strategies Podcast, this is Troy Broussard signing out. We’ll see you next week. Copyright © 2012, 2013 CTC Ventures, LLC All Rights Reserved Page 10 of 13 How We Can Help You Mike & Troy’s Insider’s Club -‐ We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Insider’s Club. The Insider’s Club is a super affordable group coaching environment as well as humungous vault of quality Internet Marke4ng Training resources. We have weekly webinar-‐based topical training sessions -‐ each about an hour long -‐ with LIVE Q&A as well and then we add that training into our Training Vault for all members to access. Currently the vault has nearly 100 hours of digital training content. The best part is that you get full and immediate access to the en4re vault of training and have three different payment plans to suit your needs. 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