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How to Live Simply: Tammy Strobel
Author of You Can Buy Happiness and writer at RowdyKittens.com
JD Roth:
Hello everybody. It’s JD Roth again and today I am talking with
my friend Tammy Strobel who writes at RowdyKittens.com.
She’s also the author of You Can Buy Happiness and It’s Cheap,
which I love the concept for that book; I like the title. And today
we’re just going to talk about some of the decisions that Tammy
and her husband Logan have made regarding money and how to
cut back and to focus more on lifestyle than getting caught up in
the rat race I guess so thanks Tammy for talking with me today.
Tammy Strobel:
Well thanks for having me.
JD Roth:
To begin I kind of gave a rough run down of my view of you. Why
don’t you tell us how you view your life and basically tell us about
your work and what you do I guess?
Tammy Strobel:
Okay, gosh, I’m a writer and a photographer and so I do a lot of
my work online and kind of my blog, Rowdy Kittens, is my whole
base on the Internet and it’s a lot of fun. But yeah, it’s interesting
because I never expected that I would become a writer and
photographer because when I left my master’s program in 2003 I
went into the investment management world so it’s kind of like
the career changes for me have been 360, just not expected. You
know when I was in my 20s in college and sort of planning out my
ideal life I thought I’d live in a big house with two cars and lots of
stuff and now I live in a very tiny house with not a lot of stuff and
we really tried to structure our lives in a way so that we can be
debt free, not have stress, be healthy, all that stuff.
JD Roth:
So Tammy when you say you live in a tiny house what do you
mean?
Tammy Strobel:
So we…our house looks…it’s sort of like an RV but it looks more
like a cabin and it’s on wheels so it’s 16 feet long, 8 feet wide,
and about 13 feet tall and so to give listeners an idea of side it
could fit into your average sized parking space in a city and it’s
roughly 128 square feet so we have our sleeping loft and a tiny
kitchen and a little living room and it’s basically super minimal and
it meets our needs.
JD Roth:
Yeah and I have to say that yours was the first tiny house that I
ever visited and in fact I should share the link. I’ll see if I can find
a way to share the link with people because I’ve got that video on
YouTube and it actually gets a lot of views still because it’s like
this little tour of a tiny house and people are curious ‘what are
these tiny houses?’ and so you and Logan gave me the tour and
showed me your kitchen and everything and it’s fun. So you have
the tiny house. Do you ever feel like you’re missing anything or
How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
how is that because most of us, especially in the United States,
we feel like we need to have a house, 800 square feet, 900
square feet at least but most of us want 1300, 1400, 1500 square
feet or 2000 or 3000 square feet and yours you said is 8 by 16
and so let me do the math, that’s 128 square feet or something
like that?
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah, well you know it’s interesting because everyone has a
different life circumstance and so the house you choose is going
to be dependent on your needs, you family situation and all that
stuff, but I’m happy most of the time. You know it’s kind of like
that 85 percent rule. Sure there are some things I miss like when
my mom comes to visit it would be great to host her and have an
extra bedroom but I can put her up at a nice B&B or she can stay
with my in-laws who have a giant old house that’s five bedrooms.
It’s a ranch style house and it’s probably at least 4000 square feet
and so it’s interesting in that way because it’s actually by sharing
resources, like we don’t have an extra bedroom but my in-laws
do, I feel like our relationship has gotten better like between
families if that makes sense.
JD Roth:
Oh really?
Tammy Strobel:
You know you just talk more like ‘hey, can we share this? Is it
okay if my mom stays the night?’ and they’ve gotten to know her
better and she feels like she’s part of my in-laws family if that
makes sense, which is cool and sort of expected benefits of the
tiny house lifestyle but like I was saying overall I’m happy.
JD Roth:
And how do the costs of owning a tiny house compare to the
costs of owning a normal house?
Tammy Strobel:
Well it’s definitely less expensive but it kind of depends on where
you are. So when we were living in Portland we were renting a
backyard for a parking space and so that was…we were paying
like $400 a month, which is cheaper than rent in a lot of parts of
Portland and we were in a great location in the city and that’s
been true in other places we’ve lived. We lived in Chico for a
while and rented a little side yard and paid $500 a month in rent
but now we’re back on my in-laws’ property and so we don’t pay
any rent but we do bartering with my in-laws. So like Logan, he
works cows sometimes, he helps out at brandings, they have a
cattle ranch so there’s a lot of work to do and if he Uncle Keith
can’t feed cows on the weekend Logan can and I can help out
with yard projects in the summer or whatever. So we’re not
paying rent but we try and contribute in other ways.
JD Roth:
Sure.
Tammy Strobel:
And it does save us a lot of money, which is cool, but we devote
time to helping out on this piece of property.
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How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
JD Roth:
Right and I imagine…when I think of owning a tiny house
because the idea appeals to me somewhat, to me it’s a trade off.
Sure you’re giving up some things but in a way by having a
smaller space it limits the things you're responsible for, the
choices you have to make and one of the fundamental
psychological things that behavioral finance has shown us is that
when we reduce the number of choices we have we actually tend
to be happier with the choices we make.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah, definitely true and I’ve found that to be the case. In my life,
even with my clothes, I don’t have a lot of clothes because we
have a tiny closet but I buy high quality items and I don’t have a
ton of them but I’m happy with my wardrobe so that’s a small
thing and I’m still making thoughtful purchases about how I spend
my cash on clothes; it’s just buying what you love and using it all
the time.
JD Roth:
I think that’s a great idea or a great point for a discussion because
I used to buy all of my clothes at thrift stores and at Costco and
that was fine for me because I didn’t care how I looked. Now
there were some problems with that but to me it wasn’t
important to spend the money on the clothing. There were other
things I’d rather spend the money on including getting out of
debt; this was back when I was in debt.
Tammy Strobel:
Sure.
JD Roth:
Once I got a divorce and began dating my priorities changed
though and so I started building a wardrobe and plus I lost 50
pounds, which meant I needed to buy a new wardrobe. So rather
than just go to Goodwill and buy a bunch of clothes that might not
necessarily be flattering I spent the time and the money to
gradually and just very slowly build a wardrobe of quality items.
So almost everything I own now as far as clothing is concerned is
something that I’ve chosen very intentionally, I haven’t bought it
on a whim but have sought it out, and it serves a purpose and I
like that.
Tammy Strobel:
And that’s great because you're probably using all of your clothes
versus getting annoyed at the stuff you found at the thrift store
maybe because I used to do the same kind of thing. I would buy
a lot at the thrift store and I tended to not be very happy with
what I bought in the long run because the clothes might not fit
right and so just trying to be more mindful of my spending
choices in that way has been nice.
JD Roth:
Yeah and I don’t want to make it sound like the thrift store’s a bad
thing because it’s not and you can find some great stuff there and
especially if you're patient you can find some great stuff. Some
of my things that I still own and love are from thrift stores but I
also have learned that it’s not a bad thing to go pay what used to
seem like an exorbitant amount of money to buy some quality
stuff. My girlfriend and I just the other week, I wanted a pair of
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How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
slip on shoes because I need something by the door that I can slip
on and off and I could’ve gone and bought something cheap,
there’s no question, but I decided that I wanted something very
nice that I could also wear out so I spent over $100 on a pair of
shoes, which might not seem like a big deal to some people but
to me that’s like ‘oh my gosh that’s a lot for a pair of shoes’ and
I’ve been wearing them two or three times a week because
they’re right there by the door and also they look nice. When we
went dancing the other night that was part of my wardrobe.
Tammy Strobel:
That’s awesome, super cool.
JD Roth:
So in a way you lead what some people would term a minimalist
lifestyle I think. You’ve got the tiny home, you don’t own a large
wardrobe, when you were in Portland I don’t know if this is still
true but you bicycled almost everywhere or maybe you did bicycle
everywhere; I don't know.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah, when we were in Portland we cycled mostly everywhere
but we did use public transit too, especially on nasty, rainy days
and stuff like that but at the time we didn’t own a car and we
actually were car free for five years and the first time we lived out
on the ranch we didn’t own a car and we were here for eight
months and so the nearest grocery stores in 12 miles into town
and so we really struggled being car free out here. We did some
car sharing and stuff like that but when we moved back this year
we decided to buy a car and it’s made our lives a lot more
streamlined. It’s just hard living in a rural area without a car; that’s
just the reality.
JD Roth:
Right and I think this is an important point Tammy because a lot of
times when people…I feel like there are two sides to this and
some people who ride bikes can be very fanatic and think that
everybody should ride bikes and there are other people who feel
like they’re being made to feel guilty because they own a car. But
I think it’s important to look at your situation and make choices
based on that situation and sure optimize to try to…well if the
environment is important to you make environmental decisions
but if you're doing it to save money do things that will have a
positive impact on your bottom line but don’t be trapped into
thinking that there’s only one right way to do things because I
think your circumstance shows that when you were in Portland
you can do the car-free thing but when you’re living where you
are now it’s more difficult.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah and you know in my book I really try and convey that
message. Just be mindful of your circumstance and it’s okay if
things change. I didn’t necessarily want to buy a car but it’s made
our lives a lot more streamlined out on the ranch and just being
able to go into town and have breakfast with my mother-in-law or
meet up with a friend whereas last year that would’ve been very
challenging. It’d be like an hour and a half ride in and then if
you’ve got bad weather or high winds or whatever it’s just harder.
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How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
And we still cycle and things have just changed in our life and that
happens. Change is inevitable.
JD Roth:
Right, exactly and I think part of this is changing the way you view
the things you own and view them as tools and things that help
you accomplish a specific task rather than a status symbol or
something that provides you pleasure. I used to try to own a lot
of stuff. I had a lot of books, a lot of comic books, a lot of DVD’s,
a lot of CD’s and I thought I would find happiness if I had all these
things. If I had all the things I wanted I’d be happy but owning
these things didn’t make me any happier and in fact now that I’ve
purged most of these things I’m a lot happier because I’ve
changed my relationship with the things I own. I don’t try to
derive pleasure from them or happiness. That’s not the source of
my happiness. The source of my happiness is the experiences I
have had I don't know…
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah and you know that’s what research shows too. Positive
psychologists or happiness researchers have shown that if you
invest in experiences and relationships those are the things in the
long run that are going to make you happier whereas with stuff
you get used to it and adapt to those things so it doesn’t really
provide that long-term happiness boost like experiences and
relationships.
JD Roth:
Right. So earlier at the start of our conversation you mentioned
that life hasn’t really gone in the direction that you had imagined
when you first left your master’s program. I wonder if you could
talk about that. Are things better than you had imagined or do you
look at it in those terms? Because I happen to think that it’s very
difficult to make predictions about where we will be a decade
from now or even five years from now and so I think this is an
interesting conversation. So tell me a little bit about how life has
turned out versus how you expected it.
Tammy Strobel:
Sure. Well you know it’s so funny like in my early 20s I had all
these ideas about where I would end up in 10 years and that has
not manifested at all. It’s completely different and I’m happier for
those changes as well. You know I’ve learned a lot along the way
and at least for me personally right now I just feel really fortunate
and grateful to have what I have and particularly for my family and
Logan, my husband, in 2012 my dad was very ill and he passed
away and so you know losing a loved one, at least for me, it just
kind of puts everything into perspective in terms of what matters
and what doesn’t. So all that to say I'm really glad that we’ve
downsized and have this small space because it gives us the time
to really focus on our loved ones, do work we love, and to have
fun you know and I’m glad I’m not weighed down by my stuff in a
big apartment anymore.
JD Roth:
Sure. So there’s a psychological advantage to this minimalist
lifestyle. Do you find that there’s actually a financial advantage to
it too? To me it sounds like we talked a little bit about how the
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How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
tiny home saves some money but do you find that owning fewer
things, especially when you were car-less maybe, I guess talk
about the financial implications of that.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah, well the primary reason we started this whole downsizing
trend was because we were deep in debt, we were stressed out,
unhappy, and so by downsizing our living space and our cars and
our stuff and kind of re-jigging how we lived our lives we were
able to pay off our debt, get our lives under control and focus on
the stuff that matters. So you know like not having the cars for so
long enabled us to pay off our debt, to save money, to build our
tiny house, and so it’s definitely for me related to the finances and
having more freedom to choose how you spend your time.
JD Roth:
So I like that notion of having more freedom to choose what you
do with your time because I know that when I was in debt I felt
like I didn’t have the freedom to do what I wanted with my time.
I had to work and by reducing the number of things I owned…I’m
by no means a minimalist. I love the idea of having a tiny house
and totally reducing…I often say that my happiest times are when
I’m living out of a suitcase when I travel because what I have, my
world has just shrunk to this one suitcase and that’s a lot of fun;
it’s a liberating experience. But in my real life I’m by no means a
minimalist. Now I’ve lost my train of thought. I was going to talk
about getting out of debt and how…well I’ve lost my train of
thought. That’s all there is to it. That’s what happened.
Tammy Strobel:
That’s okay. It’s all right and it’s so funny because I don’t really
think of myself as a minimalist either because yeah we have this
tiny house but you know if you move it you’ve got to take your
house with you so I don't know if that’s so minimal you know
what I mean…and the process that goes behind moving a little
house is more complex than you think.
JD Roth:
Sure it keeps you from making these quick decisions, ‘oh, I'm
going to move here.’
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah and we learned that the hard way over the summer. We
moved down to Chico and we thought we were going to be okay
in terms of zoning and code and that turned out not to be the
case. The city of Chico, they’re very nice in the planning
department, but we would’ve had to do a ton of modifications to
the house to make it legal and spend a lot of money and so we
made the decision to move based on finances and we’re both
glad for it to be back in this county because it’s so beautiful and
we’re so close to family again. So anyways…yeah.
JD Roth:
Not quite as minimalist as some of us might thing I guess is what
you're saying.
Tammy Strobel:
Exactly, exactly.
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How to Live Simply, Interview with Tammy Strobel
JD Roth:
So Tammy before we finish here are there some other things that
you’ve learned along the way regarding money and the
relationship between money and happiness and just personal
fulfillment I guess? Are there some things you could share with
listeners?
Tammy Strobel:
Well I think the biggest thing is if you’re going to spend money
spend your cash on experiences if you have the extra money that
is. For example over new year’s Logan and I went up to Ashland
and we stayed overnight and we spent a lot of time hiking in
Lithia Park and we went out to some great restaurants and stayed
at a wonderful hotel and so doing things like that with my extra
cash is a lot more fulfilling than going to the mall. So that’s I think
the main tip. Invest in those experiences and then another really
important thing is to invest in your relationships and the people
that you love because life changes so, so fast and I think pay
attention to your loved ones. I mean it sounds like a simple thing
but I feel like it’s so easy to get caught up in the rush of daily life
that we forget that and life can change in an instant as I learned
last year and the year before. So pay attention to the people you
really care about.
JD Roth:
I think those are both great tips, spend on experiences, not stuff,
and invest in relationships. Well thanks Tammy so much for
talking with me today. I appreciate it.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah, thank you.
JD Roth:
And if people want to learn more about you and your experiences
and your philosophy they can go to RowdyKittens.com or they
can pick up your book You Can Buy Happiness on Amazon.
Tammy Strobel:
Yeah. Thank you so much.
JD Roth:
All right. Thanks Tammy.
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