S. BOTILE 51. What did you ask him? --- I asked him why are we going to be trained' in Botswana to be soldiers. Is that the first thing that was said about this subject on the second occasion? --- I don't follow the question. Did you introduce the subject about the freedom fighters (5 on the second occasion by asking him this question? --- I asked him first. About why - that question, why should you be trained? --I don't follow the question. You introduced the subject by asking the question why (1 0 should you be trained as freedom fighters? --- Yes I did. And then he talked about it again? --- Yes he did talk about it. Did you ask him who was the chief of this organisation? He told us, I did not ask him. (1 5 Did you want to know that? --- No. Did you want to know, did you ask him questions about the details of this organisation? What it is all about? --- I did not ask him. Why did you bother to ask him why you should become freedom(2 0 fighters? --- I wanted to know. Why did you want to know? --- I wanted to know why are we going to be trained to be soldiers. What did he tell you? --- He said we are going to be trained to be soldiers and fight for freedom in South Africa. (25 And then what did you ask him then? --- I didn't ask him further questions. Why did you decide to ask him this question? --- I wanted to know. Why did you want to know? --- I wanted to know why are we going to be trained to be soldiers. You wanted tol ... (30 52. S. BOTILE You wanted to know, y o u wanted to get informa tion about this whole thing he was talking about? Yes I wanted him to inform me about that. And when you asked him he then commenced telling you about it? --- Yes. (5 So it was in this way that he told you who the chief of the organisation was? --- Yes. Did you - if you hadn't asked him that question do you think he would have talked about this idea again? --- I don't (Ie know. When he arrived there were you having a general discussion? We were playing guitars. And you were listening to what he was saying when he told you this? --- I listened. And also Nongena? --- Yes. (1 5 You stopped playing guitar and then you talked to him? --We played the guitars softly and at the same listened to what he was saying. You didn't ignore him? --- Yes. Did you? Or do you mean you did not? --- We ignored him. (2 0 But you talked to him? --- I asked him a question although I didn't take particular notice. You heard every word he said? --- I only heard what he told us that we are going to be trained to be soldiers to fight for freedom. (2 5 And he told you the whole story again on the second occasion? Yes. Yes well then you were listening, you didn't ignore him? --I was listening to him and at the same time playing the guitar. Why do you say you ignored him, if you ignore a person then(30 you don't take any notice of what he is saying? --- (Silence). Isn't the/ •.. 53. S. BOTILE Isn't the truth that you listened very carefully what he was saying; because as you have said previously you wanted to get information about this, you were interested to know what it was about? SMALBERGER, J.: Is that so? --- (Silence). The question put to you was did you listen (5 very carefully, is that correct? --- I didn't quite follow the question. Counsel suggested to you that you had in fact listened very carefully to what Accused No. 1 said that particular afternoon? Did you do so? --- I listened to what he was telling me (1 0 but not all, I only listened to what he was telling me. BY MR COETZEE: And you say that on this occasion he again - he asked you whether you are prepared to join this organisation? Yes he asked us. And what was your reaction? --- We had no interest in that. (1 5 And was it then that you said he became cross and he told you about the firing squad? --- Yes. Did you know what a firing squad meant? --- Yes I know about a firing squad because I read about it in the newspapers. And did you become very upset when he said this? --- We (2 0 just laughed at him when he said this and we ignored him and we kept on playing our guitars. On that second occasion did you get the impression then that he was serious? --- I gathered from what he said that we are fit for a firing squad. That he was serious? (2 5 Yes. You still laughed at him you didn't get upset with him? We ignored him, we laughed at him and we played the guitar. And you say eventually he left, did he say when he was going to come and see you again? --- He didn't say so, he just left. And on the/ .•• (30 54. S. BOTILE And on the last occasion, the third occasion, you were again you say'at Nongena's house when he arrived there? Yes. It was very fortunate - he was very lucky to have found you both together in Nongena's house on all three occasions? (5 Yes. There was no prior arrangement that you should meet him there? --- No. Now what were you doing on this occasion when he arrived? We were sitting there playing guitars. (1 And how did it come about that he talked about freedom fighting again on the third occasion? --- He told us about his trip to Johannesburg and that he was going to cross the border. How did ~t come about that he started talking about this In the course of the conver-(1 5 trip, did you ask him about it? sation this cropped up, that he had been to Johannesburg. In the course of what conversation? --- About soccer. You say you were talking about soccer and then it cropped up that he had been to Johannesburg? --- Yes. Can you perhaps explain to us how it cropped up while you were talkiug about soccer? (20 He is also a football player and we were talking about this and then he then in the course of the conversation he then mentioned this. He just suddenly mentioned that he had been to Johannesburg? Yes. (2 5 Was the intention that he should join your soccer club? It was his desire to join our club and we were prepared to accept him into our club. And after he had I threatened you with the firing squad? Before that he did express his wish to join the club. When he arrived there on the third occasion were you friendly / ..• (30 s. 55. friendly with him? BOTILE We didn't quarrel with him. Did you think he was again coming to see you about freedom fighting? I didn't think so because he came there and he joined in our conversation because we were talking about ball. And then you say he suddenly started to talk about freedom (5 fighting again? --- Yes. Didn't you tell him that this is now the third occasion on which he has been talking about this thing and that you are not interested, you don't want to hear anything more about it? On the third occasion as well we told him that well we are (1 0 not interested in what you are telling us. When he started to talk about this or after he finished telling you about his trip?--- After he had told us about his trip we told him that we are not yet prepared to what he is telling us - interested in what he was telling us. (1 5 Not yet interested? --- We have no interest. Did you think that there was a possibility that you might get interested at a later stage or did you tell him that you might get interested at a later stage? No we didn't express that view. (2 C And did you know this person Nqola Hempe? --- I knew him by sight. And on that third occasion did you - did Accused No. 1 tell you that Nqola Hempe has been arrested? --- No he did not tell us. (2 5 Are you quite sure about that? --- I am sure. Did you know that he was arrested? I did not know yet. You only heard it afterwards? --- Yes. You didn't hear it from Accused No. I? --- No. When Accused No. 1 told you on the second occasion that Nqola Hempe was the chief organiser of this organisation were you sUrprised/ ••• (3 0 56. S. BOTILE you surprised to hear that Nqola was involved in such a thing? Well I did not take particular notice of what he was . saying I just listened to it as he was telling me. You heard that he was saying that Nqola Hempe was chief organiser of his organisation, this freedom fighting organisation? (5 --- Yes I heard that. So you knew Nqola Hempe by sight? --- Yes by sight. So weren't you surprised and upset to hear such a serious thing about Nqola Hempe? --- I could not be surprised because I was not interested in such things, just listened to it. (l C Did you discuss the nature of the facts which Accused No. 1 told you with any of your friends? I didn't talk about it. Did you - at any other stage did you and Nongena discuss it? --- No we did not discuss this. You never talked to each other about what Accused No. 1 (1 5 had told you? --- We did not discuss it. Did Nongena ask you what Accused No. 1 meant by firing squad? --- He did not ask me. Did he know what he meant by firing squad? BY MR JURGENS: M'Lord I think that it is a bit unfair to ask the witness what Sydney Macotha knew SMALBERGER, J.: BY MR JURGENS: (2 0 and what he understood. Well unless they possibly discussed it . The witness said they never discussed it. My learned friend can ask him whether Sydney ever told him that he understood or did not understand. SMALBERGER, J.: Well I think you should lay (2 5 some better founda- tion for asking this question. BY MR COETZEE: As Your Lordship pleases. Did - was there any discussion between you and Nongena about the meaning of firing squad? --- No we didn't discuss it . (30 And he neither - do you say h e asked you what is meant by it?/ ... 57. S. BOTILE it? --- Nongena? Yes. --- No. And you say when he talked about the firing squad you got the impression that this man is meaning what he was saying? Yes I got that impression about it because I know what a (5 firing squad is by reading about it in the newspapers. Did he frighten you to a certain extent? --- I didn't care much about it. This is a very unusual thing that a person should do, to threaten you with a firing squad? To us? (10 It is a very unusual thing for a person to come in the house and threaten other people with a firing squad because they don't want to join a certain organisation? --- It is not a usual thing. And neither this caused you and Nongena to discuss this whole episode? (1 5 --- I didn't talk about this I kept it inside me, I didn't care much about it, but I did hear about it. Now di~Accused No.1 you say also asked you on the third occasion what your attitude was about joining his organisation, (20 is · that correct? --- Yes he asked us. Once again you say you declined it? --- Yes. Did the accused at any stage tell you and Nongena to keep quiet about what he had told you? --- No he didn't say that. And do you also agree that~cused No.1 wasn't a very great (2 5 friend of yours? --- Yes. He was no friend at all of yours? --- He was not my friend. And this was the second occasion that you talked to him when he introduced the subject about the freedom fighters to you? Yes. Did it surprise you that he would approach you, a man with (30 whom he had no substantial links , that he should approach you about such/ ••• s. 58. about such a serious thing as freedom fighting? . BOTILE Well I was not interested in it, I just listened. Now were you also arrested by the police for this whole thing? --- Yes I was arrested. How long were you detained? --- Two months. (5 And were you asked to make a statement in order to prove your innocence and get a release? --- This is my true statement. I was not asked to make a statement there. Did you make a statement to the police? --- Yes I did make (1 0 a statement. And then you were released? --- Yes. And did the police tell you that if you make a statement which proves that you are innocent then you will be released? Yes they said so. Now you must - I am going to tell you what Accused No. 1 (1 5 says happened, you must listen what I am telling you and then you can tell us whether you agree or disagree? --- Yes. He says that before he ever had any discussions with you about freedom fighting you had sent him a message to the effect - through Michael, a certain person by the name of Michael, to the effect that you wanted to see him? (2 0 Is that so? --- No. He says that he saw Nongena - shortly thereafter he saw Nongena at the soccer field and that Nongena told him that he, Nongena, wanted to see him? I know nothing about that. Well do you perhaps know about this, he says that it was (2 5 arranged between him and Nongena that he should meet Nongena at Nongena's house the following afternoon? Do you know anything about that? --- No I have no knowledge of that. He says that he then saw you and Nongena in fact on this particular afternoon and there was a general discussion about soccer? (3 0 He said that Nongena asked him whether it was true that he had been/ •.. 59. s. BOTILE he had been to - had attempted to go to Botswana - or that he had attemp~ed to go to Botswana for training? --- I know nothing about that. He says Nongena asked him - he was asked many questions by either you or Nongena about the whole idea of freedom fighting? (5 'Is that so? --- No I asked him only once. He said that he told you that he went as far as Johannesburg? He said that you and Nongena indicated that you are interested and would like to join this the freedom fighters? We didn't say that. (10 Have you heard before that Accused No. 1 had been away to Johannesburg? --- I heard about that from him. You didn't know it before? --- No I did not know it yet. Did you and Nongena also ask him the route to follow? (1 5 We did ask him about things but he didn't give us straight answers. You did ask him for instance what is the route to Botswana? Yes. What else did you ask him? --- The route - I asked him about the route and the purpose of going there for training. (20 You say he didn't give you straight answers? --- He didn't give us straight answers. We asked him about transport. Did he give you an answer to that? --- He did not answer us. Did you ask him how you were going to get across the border? (2 We asked him how can one cross the borders without transport because there are soldiers there. How do you know that there were soldiers there? --- I read in the papers that there were soldiers on the borders. Did you discus s it that there are soldiers on the border? I knew that of my own that there were soldiers there . not tell this/ ••• I did (30 60. S. BOTILE not tell this to anybody, I didn't ask for this from anybody. Did you tell Accused No. 1 when you were discussing the freedom fighters, did you tell him that you have read there are soldiers on the borders? --- I did not tell him. And did you ask him where after you cross the border to (5 Botswana where were you supposed to go then? --- No I didn't ask him those things. Well he said that after you have asked him the route, you said yes, he told you that he didn't know the route but that if he happened to hear of anything which might assist you he will tell you about it? (le Is that so, did he tell you that he would tell you if he heard of anything? --- No he didn't tell us. You probably wouldn't know about it, but he said that he again met Nongena in the street and Nongena asked him whether he heard anything, do you know anything about that? --- No, I (1 5 know nothing about that. He said that it was then arranged that he would see Nongena at a later stage? He said that some time thereafter on a certain evening he saw Nongena - he arrived again at Nongena's house and you were not there, you probably wouldn't know about (2 0 it, he said he left again and he came back later and when he returned you were present? That was probably the second occas- ion, you don't know anything about that, the fact that he had been and left and come back again? --- No I know nothing about that. (2 5 He said that on this occasion he did tell you - he asked you whether you knew that Nqola Hempe? Is that so, did he ask you whether you knew Nqola? --- He didn't ask me. He said that you told him that you knew him? --- I deny that. Is that so or can't you remember? --- I do not know that. Well he said that Nqola is the person who is interested in the same things/ .•. (3 0 s. 61. BOTILE the same things in which you and Nongena were and he then asked you whether you wanted him to tell Nqola about the .way you and Nongena are feeling about freedom fighters? so? Is that No I know nothing about that. He said that you agreed and you also agreed that he would tell Nqola about it? (5 He said that on the third occasion when he arrived at Nongena's house you were not there and you were called by another boy? Is that so? --- No when he came I was already there. He said that on that occasion he told you that Nqola had (10 been arrested? --- I deny that. At any stage during these discussions did you talk about passports, or did he tell you anything about passports? --- No. At no stage was mention made of passports? --- No there was (15 none. Well he said on this last occasion Nongena asked him or suggested whether it would be an idea to travel with passports? He told you that he didn't know much about passports but he did not think it was a good idea? --- I know nothing about that. Do you maintain that at no stage were you interested in (20 this whole idea of freedom fighters? --- No. Would you have - if you had anything to do with freedom fighters would you have admitted it to the police at any time when they questioned you while you were detained? --- If I took part in this I would have admitted it. (25 NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR COETZEE: RE-EXAMINED BY MR JURGENS: How long after your arrest and detention by the Police did you make the statement which you now gave evidence to the Court? I had been in custody for two months. (30 And after you told - perhaps I have framed the question incorrectly / .•• 62. S. BOTILE incorrectly by making it 'statement' - at what stage did you relate to'the police what you now related to the Court? It is not so much formally made a statement, but relate to the police? SMALBERGER, J.: Do you mean in relation to when he was taken (5 into custody? BY MR JURGENS: Yes M'Lord. --- I was arrested for the first time. Yes but how long after you had been arrested did you tell the story to the police that you told us today in Court? --- On (10 my arrest I did relate this story to the police. And only some time thereafter you were released? --- Yes. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JURGENS: SMALBERGER, J.: I would like to know about this statement you made to the police, was any promise made to you or inducement offered therefor that you should make a statement? I (1 5 am expecting no promise, what I have stated is the truth. Did the police say to you now will you make a statement? Where? When you were in custody under arrest? --- I was assaulted (20 first I then made a statement. And did they say that if you showed your innocence you would be released? --- I was asked to tell the truth. And your statement was that in the form of question and answer, did they ask you questions and you wrote your answers (2 5 down or did you volunteer the whole thing as one statement? I was asked questions and my answers were written down. What was written down did they read back to you? --- No. Did you sign a document? --- Yes there is a paper which I (30 signed. What did you sign? --- I signed my name. To what were you/ •.. s. 63. BOTILE To what were you signing your name? --- On a paper. Do you know what was on the paper? --- That I did not notice. You say that you were assaulted by the police, when you were first questioned by the police did you refuse to give (5 them any information? --- I was protesting saying I do not know why they are arresti n g me . And when did the assault take place in relation to your arrest? --- On the same day of my arrest I was assaulted. And were you assaulted before or after the police first (l C started questioning you? --- At the same time they were questioning me they assaulted me. Do you know why they assaulted you? --- I don't know. Was it because you weren't being co-operative or that they thought that you weren't being co-operative? --- I don't know. (1 5 Had you refused to answer any questions that they put to you? Yes there were. There were questions that you refused to answer? --- Yes. And then they assaulted you? --- Yes. And after that did you answer those questions? Yes. Did they assault you on one or more occasions? Once. (2 0 And did those questions relate to the evidence which you have given in Court today? --- Yes. Had you not been assaulted what would your attitude have been to answering the questions that were put to you? --- I (2 5 would have said I know nothing. Do I understand you correctly to say this morning that what you in fact did tell the police was the truth, what you have told us today is the truth? Yes. Mr Coetzee do you want to ask any further questions arising from this? BY MR COETZEE:/ .•. {30 64. V.H. TANDANI No MILord. BY MR COETZEE: SMALBERGER, J:: Mr Jurgens? BY MR JURGENS: No thank you MILord. THE COURT ADJOURNS: (5 THE COURT RESUMES: VUYANI HUDDELSTONE TANDANI: Sworn, states: (Through Interpreter) : EXAMINED BY MR JURGENS: Vuyani do you reside in New Brighton, Port Elizabeth, and you employed in Port Elizabeth? Do you know Accused No. I? Yes I stay there. (10 Yes I know him. How do you know him? --- We grew up together in the same area. Can you remember that you went to see him some time during last year? --- Yes I still remember. (15 Why did you go to see him? --- He said he wanted to see me. How did he say so, by what means? He sent somebody to come and tell me that he wanted to see me. Who is that person? --- It was Sipho. Is that the person named Sipho Philpot Zita? --- I only (20 know him by his first name, Sipho. Can you remember when this was, the date or the month? It was last year, I do not know the date but I think it was towards the end of the year in December. And as a result of what Sipho told you did you go to Accused No. lis house? (25 --- Yes I did go. And did you find him at home? --- He was not in. So you left? --- Yes I went away. Did you see him again? --- The following day. What happened the following day? --- He told me I should wait for him there because he was still going to Xamalala (?) to go and look/ ..• (30 65. V.H. TANDAN I go and look for other people. Was that'at this house? --- Yes at his house. Now Xamalala is that a street in New Brighton? Yes. Did he say who he was going to get? --- He only to ld me that he was going to get other fellows, he did not tell me (5 the names. And did you wait at his house? -- - Yes I waited. And what happened? --- He stayed away for too long and I decided to go. And did you see each other again after that? --- We saw each other long after that. (Ie He was coming back from school when I saw him. Where did you see each other? --- In the street. In New Brighton? --- Yes. And what happened there, what did he tell you? --- He said (1 5 I have no straight. Why? --- I do not know why. SMALBERGER, J.: I beg your pardon, what did you say? BY INTERPRETER: He said I have no straight- am not afraid in other words. BY MR JURGENS: (2 0 Did you know what he was referring to when he said you were not straight? --- I thought he meant that I did not wait for him at hi s house. And then what happened then? --- After he had said to me I am not straight he went away and I also went my own way. (2 5 Did you see each other again? --- I saw him again after he had been arrested. But did he at any stage ever speak to you about anything? Yes he did. What did he say? --- He said he wanted me to go with him to Botswana. Did he say/ ... (30 66. V.H. TANDANI Did he say what for? - -- To undergo military training. For what· purpose? --- He did not tell me. Did he say where you would undergo the military training? In Botswana. Did he say what you would do after you had received this (5 military training? --- He didn't go to the extent of telling me. Now what did he relate this military training to? --- He only said we should go and train in Botswana and he further told me that one of his family has gone there. He did not tel l me for what purpose. ( Ie Now did he tell you why you should go with him to receive military training outside the Republic? --- I have already stated he did not tell me the purpose. And what was your reaction to his request? --- I said I would discuss this at horne first. (1 5 And did you discuss it at horne? --- Yes I told my mother about it. And what did you decide after~ur discussion? --- At horne I was told if I am involved myself in such things and be arrested I would have to see to me own affairs. (2 0 And did you tell that to Accused No. I? --- I did not tell h~. Was that the only occasion when he spoke to you about military training? --- He only mentioned military training to me only on that occasion. (2 5 Where was this? --- We were in the street. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JURGENS: SMALBERGER, J.: Was this on the same occasion that he told you you were not straight? --- That was before that. BY MR COETZEE: M'Lord I think I find myself again in the (3 0 position where I need to have a short discussion with the accused. SMALBERGER, J.:/ .•• 67. SMALBERGER, J.: V.H. TANDANI/Z.P.ZINTO Yes very well Mr Coetzee, you can let me know when you'are ready to proceed. THE COURT ADJOURNS: (5 THE COURT RESUMES: NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR COETZEE: ZOYISILE PATRICK ZINTO: Sworn, states: (Through Interpreter): EXAMINED BY MR JURGENS: Patrick are you resident in New Brighton, Port Elizabeth, (10 and are you employed in Port Elizabeth? --- Yes. Do you know Accused No.1? --- Yes I know him. How do you know him? --- I have been schooling with him doing Standard 6. Can you remember on one Sunday afternoon during last year (1 5 you met him at a soccer field at the Guide Hall in New Brighton? Yes. Can you remember on what date this was or during which month? --- It was on a Sunday, I don't remember the date, but it was towards the end of the year. (2 0 1975? --- Yes last year. What did you and Christopher speak about, what did he tell He greeted me, I responded. you? And what did he say? --- He asked me what I was watching there and I said I am watching a game of soccer. He asked me (2 5 what do I see on the field and I told him I was watching a game of soccer. He asked me do you see something wrong with this field and I said I notice that our field is not right . I then said this field is supposed to be improved by the Board with its money . (3 0 What did the accused say to you? --- He then said I shouldn't discuss such/ ••. 68. Z.P. ZINTO discuss such things I should discuss politics. I then said I cannot talk'about politics because I know nothing about that. What did the accused say then? --- Accused No. 1 then said he would like to see me and he would like me to go along with him to go and undergo military training. (5 I refused. Did he say where you would undergo this military training? He said we are going to go out, he did not tell me where to, but he said we would come back. Come back and do what? --- And fight the White man. I refused. (10 Did he say how you would thmfight the White man, with words or what? --- He said if you go out and receive military training and from there we would come back and fight the Whites with weapons. I said I cannot do such a thing because I am working. (15 Was that the only occasion when the accused, Accused No.1, spoke to you about military training? --- Yes on that day yes. And on any other day - did he speak on any other day to you about military training? --- I met him as I was returning from work and he again talked about that thing. (20 What did he say, did he ask you anything? --- He asked me if I was prepared to go and I said no I am not prepared to. And did he then leave you? Yes. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JURGENS: CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR COETZEE: (25 Was the first occasion when the accused spoke to you about military training the day when the two of you were talking at the soccer field? I was returning from work. Oh was that the first occasion? --- He spoke about military training for the first time when he met me when I was returning (30 from work. And what did/ ..• Z.P. ZINTO 69. And what did he say to you then? --- He asked me if I was prepared uo go with him to receive military training. Did you know that he was interested in military training? I did not know that he was interested. And was that the same day when he spoke to you at the (5 soccer field or a different day? --- It was not on the same day. Was it a long time afterwards that he spoke to you at the soccer field or was it shortly afterwards? --- It was a long time after that. You say that on both occasions you refused? --- Yes I (1 0 refused . And then he left you alone? --- Yes. Now the accused denies that he had seen you on two occasions, he said he only saw you once at the soccer field? --- No. Are you quite certain about that? --- I am certain . (1 5 In which street was it you saw him on the first occasion? He was corning out of Sander (?) Street and I was corning on the upper side of the street and corning from work. And he stopped you there in the street? --- Yes he stopped me in the street. (20 Were there other persons walking passed you?--- I was on the side of the street and the people were walking on the other side. Did he talk quite normally to you? --- Yes he talked to me as we were walking along. He didn't speak in a whisper? --- He was talking. (2 5 Was he talking hard and you were talking hard? --- Yes he was talking normally as I am talking now. And you made it quite clear to him that day that you are not interested? --- Yes I told him that I was not interested. And when he saw you on the second occasion did he explain to you the whole thing again? --- He did not explain everything. He only said/ •.• (30 70. Z.P. ZINTO He only said he wanted to take me along and go and receive , military training and then corne back. Did he ask you whether you have changed your mind from the first occasion? --- I did not change. Did he ask you on the second occasion are you prepared now (5 to go? --- I refused, I did not agree. Did he ask you whether you have changed your mind? --- I don't remember agreeing to such a thing. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR COETZEE: (10 NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR JURGENS: SMALBERGER, J.: I just want to be quite sure that I understand your evidence correctly, he spoke to you on two occasions, once in the street and once at the soccer field, is that correct? No he didn't speak to me once. No I said, did he speak to you once at the soccer field (1 5 and he spoke to you once in the street, is that correct? --- Yes. And on each of those occasions he spoke to you about military training? --- Yes he was talking about military training. Now I just want to be quite sure from you which of those discussions took place first, the one in the street or the one (2 0 at the soccer field? --- He spoke to me on the soccer field for the first time. WINSTON ERIC vITLKEN: --------------SMAL BE RGERz R.: DEUR MNR. COETZEE : --------------§M!~~B~~~~: (Verklaa r onde r ee d) ( 25 Is u kli e nte Afrikaa nsmagti g? Nee. Sal u asseblief vir hulle oortolk? ONDERVHAGING D1'UR MNR. JURGENS: ------ - -------Is u In speurder-off isier in die Suid-Afrikaa ns e Poli s i e met die rang van lui tenant verbonde aan die Veil i gs heidta k gestasioneer te Port Elizabeth? -- Dit is korrek. Is u di e / •••• ( 30 710 W.E. Wilken i ... Is u die ondersoekbeampte ill bierdie saak? -- Ek io o Was u op .'n stadium bebulpsaam met die arrestasie en ondersoek van die saak teen die persoon Nqola Hempe wat bier genoem is? -- Ja dit is korrek o Waar en wanneer is bierdie persoon gearresteer? -- Die (5 persoon is in Oos Londen gearresteer op 21ste Januarie, bierdie jaar . Waar is by aangehou? -- Hy was aangehou ook op Oos Londen maar hy was ook na Port Elizabetb gebring vir sekere getuienis (Ie doeleindes . Weet u uit u eie kennie waar bierdie Nqola Hempe hom bevind gedurende Desember, 1975? -- Ja ek bet ondersoek gedoen in Port Elizabetb en ek bet vasgestel dat by weI in Port Elizabeth werksaam was gedurende De s emberma and . Ja . Dit is ne t teen opsigte van die be wering dat die beskuldigde in Hempe . J~sember (1 5 gepraa t van die arrestasie van Nqola Net terloops wanneer is die twee beskuldie; de s eea.rresteer'! -- Die twee ueskuldigdes was onderskeidelik - beskuldigde was gearresteer 22ste April van bie :rdie jaar en beskuldigde No. 2 ( 20 die dag daarna, die 23ste Aprile En as gevolg van informasie wa t u ingewin bet bet u ook twee van die Staatsgetuies, dit is nou Similo Botile en Sydney Macotha laat arresteer? Ja , dit i s korrek . U het in die bof gesi t toe Similo Botile getuig bet , was u teen~oordig toe by gearresteer is? -- Nee ek was nie t e en- ( 2S woordig met sy arrestasie nie o Nou hierdie twee persone bet ook vir ons ge s @ dat bulle vir twee maande aangebou is, waarom wa s dit so? -- Dit was vermoed dat bierdie 'n groter omvang gebad bet en op daardie ( 3c stadium wou ons - was ons bevrees dat die twee getuies sou ontvlug en hulle was toe nog aangebou gewees omdat dit nog in ' n onders oek i ... 72. W. E • Wi 1 ken I 0 • • In on ders oek stadium was . Met ande~ woorde t wee maande later bet u uitgevind dat bulle st ori es - dat u niks gebad het om bulle stories te weerl~ nie, dat u bulle toe l aa t ont sl aan het? -- Di t is korr'eko Q:~l~ N_Y~:m~~RE VRA~J?~R ~NR_. JUBQ:EN~ . ~BgI§O~~BY~Q:ING_DEgR MNB.!.._COET~ : Het No. 2 - ek dink ek sal bierdie vrae l ater aan die • getu ie stel, dit het nie betrekking op die oomblik nie. (Ie 2-T_~~_!_§_~_~~K · OF- HIERDIE - - - - - STADIUM NB}M DI E HOF DIE LANG VERDAGINGo ----BY HERVATTI NG : J2~_E:_~_l!_.Q~ Ml~B.!.._~~BQ:~~§_~~RE~K (l~ __._.Q-A~ . DIE HOF TOE. MR.!-CO ~!ZEE ADDRE§§~§_!HE_C01!B!o 2QgB~ADIOUIQ@ . THE COURT I.... ( 20 73 JUbGMENT THE COURT RESUMES 24 . 9.76: JUDGMENT SMALBERGER, J.: The two accused are charged with contraventions of Section 2(1) (b) of Act 83 of 1967. In respect of Count 1 it is alleged that both accused, after having attended discus- (5 sions held at various places in the Port Elizabeth district, consented to travel with certain other persons to Botswana via Johannesburg and Mafeking and there to undergo military training which would enable them, and I quote from the charge sheet, "to return to the Republic of South Africa to fight the White people(lO in the Republic of South Africa by violence in order to free the Black people from oppression", and that in pursuance of their resolution they travelled to Johannesburg. The second count which involves only Accused No.1, alleges that during the period October 1975 to January 1976, Accused No. 1 incited, (1 5 instigated and advised or encouraged certain persons named in the charge sheet to undergo military training to enable them to fight the White people in the Republic of South Africa by violence in order, so the charge reads, "to free the Black people from oppression". (2 0 The two accused were represented by Mr Coetzee and pleaded not guilty to the charges against them. At the conclusion of the State case neither accused gave evidence and the Defence case was closed without any witnesses being called for the Defence. (2 5 The first witness called by the State was Phumelele Michael Faku. He was warned as an accomplice before giving evidence. He testified to various meetings held at Veeplaas in the Port Elizabeth district at which he, the two accused, and one Mayford Faku decided to proceed to Botswana to undergo training as soldiers with a view to returning to South Africa to fight the White people/ •.. (30 JUDGMENT 74 White people with weapons and liberate the Black people. At these meetings various matters were discussed relating to the implementation of their plans. At a later meeting at New Brighton it was also agreed that one Sipiwo Makapela would accompany them on their journey. The necessary financial (5 arrangements were discussed and made and eventually the five of them left Port Elizabeth for Johannesburg, having acquired single tickets for their journey. Before leaving Port Eliza- beth they gathered around a map in possession of Accused No. 1 and discussed what route they would take from Mafeking to Botswana and how they would cross the border. (10 On arrival in Johannesburg the witness, the two accused and their two companions went to the house of Miss Joyce Faku, the witness' sister. When she heard of their plans she became upset and tried to persuade them to abandon what they had in mind and to return to Port Elizabeth. (1 5 Discussion and argument, at times heated, ensued between the five persons and ultimately the witness and the two accused decided to return to Port Elizabeth, which they did the next day. Mayford Faku and Sipiwo Makapela apparently proceeded as originally agreed and nothing was (2 0 revealed in this Court of their subsequent movements and present whereabouts. No substantial challenge was directed to the evidence of Michael Faku under cross-examination and no grounds were advanced in argument why the evidence should not be believed. We are mindful of the fact that he is an accomplice and that his(2 5 evidence should therefore be approached with the caution which the law enjoys. We are particularly aware that in a case such as the present the dangers of deliberate exculpation and false implications are probably greater than in other cases involving accomplice evidence, thereby necessitating especial vigilance on our part. We were impressed with the demeanour of Michael Faku in the/ . . . (3 0 75 JUDGMENT Faku in the witness box and the manner in which he gave his His evidence was virtually unchallenged under evidence. cross-examination and the accused did not seek to deny it under oath. We are satisfied that all the requirements re- lating to accomplice evidence have been satisfied, and we have (5 no hesitation in accepting his evidence. Section 2(1) (b) of the Terrorism Act, No. 83 of 1967, provides , and I quote : "Subject to the provisions of sub-section (4), any person who in the Republic or elsewhere undergoes or attempts, consents or takes any steps to undergo, or incites, instigates, commands, aids, advises, encourages or procures any other person to undergo any training which would be of use to any person intending to endanger the maintenance of law and order, and who fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not undergo or attempt, consent or take any steps to undergo, or incite , instigate, command, aid, advise, encourage or procure such other persons to undergo such training for the purpose of using it or causing it to be used to commit any act likely to have any of the results referred to in sub-section (2) in the Republic or any portion thereof, shall be guilty of the offence of participation in terroristic activities ." The results referred to in sub-section (2) of Section 2 are widespread in their nature and effect. (10 (1 5 (20 We are satisfied, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the conduct of the two accused on Count 1 falls within the ambit of the provisions of Section 2(1) (b) of Act 83 of 1967, in that they attempted , consented and took steps to undergo military training which could be of (2 5 use to any person intending to endanger the maintenance of law and order, and that they have failed to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that they did not so act for the purpose of using such training to commit an act likely to have the results contemplated in Section 2(2) of the Act. (30 In the circumstances, they have contravened the provisions of Section/ .•• 76 JUDGMENT Section 2(1) (b) of the Act and they are accordingly both found GUILTY ON COUNT 1, as charged. Count 2 relates only to Accused No.1. Four witnesses testified in regard to this count, apart from Lieutenant Wilken, whose evidence did not really take the matter any further. (5 Sydney Macotha testified that Accused No. 1 had on three on~ separate occasions approached him and Similo Botile, with a view to recruiting them to undergo military training in Botswana and to come back to South Africa with weapons to fight the White people. His evidence in this regard was supported by Similo Botile. Mr Coetzee, in his argument, pointed out (1 0 various inconsistencies, contradictions and improbabilities in their evidence. Principal amongst the latter were that Accused No. 1 would have approached persons little known to him with a view to inciting or encouraging them to undergo military (1 5 training, and that he would have persisted in his efforts, despite the lack of interest in, and even objection to, his proposal. He also pointed out that both witnesses had , according to them, been assaulted by the police and had only implicated Accused No.1 after such assaults. He argued that had their (2 0 interest in the accused's approaches to them been as detached as they suggest they would have had no hesitation in telling the police about his conduct, and it would not have been necessary for them to have been assaulted before divulging information. There are, undoubtedly, certain discrepancies and contra- (2 5 dictions in the evidence of Sydney and Similo, but they are not, in our view, of so serious a nature as to justify a rejection of their evidence. It is probable that they would have shown greater curiosity and even interest in the proposals made by Accused No. 1 than they cared to admit, and this must to some extent reflect upon their credibility. This fact and the fact that their/ ... (30 77 JUDGMENT that their disclosur$to the police were only made after some physical persnasion had been brought to bear upon them by the police, makes it necessary to approach their evidence with care. Their general demeanour in the witness box, insofar as it is possible to guage this when a witness testifies through the medium of an interpreter, was satisfactory. each other in material respects. (5 They corroborate Certain aspects of their evidence have a distinct ring of truth about them, such as the statement by Accused No. L when the witnesses were not amenable to his proposals, that they were only fit for the firing squad. (l C We are satisfied, notwithstanding the collective effect of the criticisms I have mentioned, that their evidence is generally acceptable. The acceptability of their evidence is strengthened by the fact that Accused No. 1 did not seek to deny their evidence under oath. We accordingly accept that Accused (1 5 No. 1 approached them, as they alleged he did, with the view to inciting or encouraging them to undergo military training. The witness Vuyani Tandani testified that Accused No. 1 had approached him once and suggested that the witness go to Botswana to undergo military training. Accused No. 1 did not (2 0 disclose the purpose for which the military training was to be undergone. The evidence of this witness was neither challenged under cross-examination, nor denied in evidence. This evidence, in our view, establishes that Accused No. 1 encouraged the witness to undergo training which could be of use to any person (2 5 intending to endanger the maintenance of law and order, and that as such his conduct falls within the very wide ambit of Section 2(1) (b) of Act 83 of 1967. The witness Zoyisile Patrick Zinto testified to two approaches made to him by Accused No. 1 to undergo military training outside the Republic, with a view to coming to South Africa tol ... (3 0 78 • Africa to fight the White people. JUDGMENT Apart from the suggestion under cross-examination that Accused No. 1 had only appr~ached the witness on one occasion, his evidence is not challenged and not denied under oath. The last two witnesses I have mentioned both gave their (5 evidence in a satisfactory manner, and we accept their evidence. We are satisfied, having regard to the provisions of section 2(1) (b) of the Act, that the evidence on Count 2 establishes the guilt of the Accused No. 1 on that count, and we accordingly find him GUILTY on that count in respect of the (10 four persons whose names are mentioned in Count 2. To sum up, Accused No. 1 is found GUILTY ON BOTH COUNTS and Accused No.2 is found GUILTY ON COUNT 1. (1 5 MR JURGENS HANDS IN FORM SAP.69: ACCUSED NO. 1 HAS NO PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS: ACCUSED NO. 2 ADMITS HIS PREVIOUS CONVICTION: SMALBERGER, J.: Before giving you the opportunity of addressing on sentence, Mr Coetzee, I just wish to note on record that in (2 0 terms of Section 254(2) of Act 56 of 1955, Phumelele Michael Faku is discharged from all liability to prosecution arising from his participation in the events to which he testified. BY MR COETZEE: MILord I only wish to address Your Lordship on (2 5 the sentence and I will submit MILord that the following circumstances can serve as mitigating circumstances in this case. In respect of both accused, No. 1 and No.2, on Count 1 I submit the following. Both accused were apparently under the influence of the person who was called Mayford Faku. It will be recalled (3 0 that Michael testified that Mayford appeared to be the leader and the main/ ..• ADDRESS ON SENTENCE 79 • the main instigator of the whole scheme under which they had to go for military training. Your Lordship will also recall that Michael Faku's evidence was to the effect that when Accused No.1 arrived at Veeplaas on the Saturday he hadn't decided yet - he hadn't made up his mind yet to join this (5 organisation, it was only as a result of his discussion between them and Mayford Faku that Accused No. 1 decided to join. M'Lord a further circumstance is the family relationship between Mayford Faku and Accused No.1 . Michael is also closely related to Mayford and he agreed that that relationship played a part in their decisions to join this organisation. (10 M'Lord there is also the other factor that - which was agreed to by Michael Faku, that Mayford had told them of various, as he had put it 'pleasures', which one can almost call a sort of a fringe benefit of the military training. He had mentioned the fact (1 5 that they would receive free education and that this was also not of inconsiderable influence which was brought to bear on their minds to make them take this decision. M' Lord there is the further factor, no doubt Your Lordship will bear in mind in considering the sentence, that they are only charged of attempt-(2 0 ing to undergo military training and so M'Lord I will submit that no doubt the sentence for an attempt and the sentence for a completion of this act must, in my respectful submission, differ. M'Lord in respect of Accused No.2, there is a further consideration, it is common cause between the State and the Defenc~ (2 5 that Accused No. 2 had assisted the police in the investi- gation of this case, and M'Lord in respect of him I make the further observation that after he had returned from Johannesburg there is no evidence of any further association with this whole thing . M'Lord in respect of Count 2 relating only to Accused (30 No.1, I submit/ •.• • 80 ADDRESS ON SENTENCE No.1, I submit that Your Lordship will at least find in his favour that his activities in recruiting people - he is ~ot charged with recruiting, but as the underlying activity which the Act intends to prohibit is the recruiting of freedom fighters, I would submit M'Lord that his association and his activities to a certain extent are limited. (5 M'Lord although Your Lordship found that he had made three approaches to Similo and Nongena and two to one of the other witnesses, I would submit that nowhere in the evidence do these witnesses testify that he tried to be very persuasive and tried to persuade them. The(lO evidence amounts to an attempt to approach them and to ask them to join, but there is no - none of these witnesses go so far as to say that he tried to persuade them - to win them over to join the organisation, and I would submit that to that extent it can be said that Accused No.1 did exercise some reservation. (1 5 There is also the further factor that Lieutenant Wilken has said that whereas the whole situation appeared to be serious originally it turned out not to be as serious and for that reason certain persons were not charged. M'Lord I submit that this is a feature which can be taken into account in considering(20 the sentence as it reflects on the seriousness of the situation which prevailed and a situation in which Accused No. 1 wilfully participated. M'Lord in respect of the sentences Your Lordship is no doubt aware that a five year sentence is compulsory and that the Act does not give Your Lordship any discretion to (25 impose a sentence of less than five years. SMALBERGER, J.: BY MR COETZEE: I am painfully aware of that Mr Coetzee. I would submit M'Lord that Your Lordship will probably, if there was no provisions as to compulsory sentence, and I submit with respect M'Lord that Your Lords hip will probably(3 C consider imposing a lesser sentence than five years for Count 1, by reason of/ •.. • 81 ADDRESS ON SENTENCE by reason of the fact that they have only attempted to undergo military training, and that there is no further evidence, even in respect of Accused No . 1, that he made other attempts to obtain his purpose, and M'Lord on that line of reasoning I submit that Your Lordship will probably have sentenced them to a lesser sentence than five years on the first count. (5 Now Your Lordship has got no discretion and must impose a five year sentence. Then one comes to the second count. Now if Your Lordship would have, and I submit this with respect M'Lord, imposed a lesser sentence than five years on the first count, (10 then by imposing a five year sentence on both counts, and I think it is common cause that the sentence can run concurrently, I can briefly refer to - I think that is common cause. SMALBERGER, J . : I think it should be. I know that in Hatting's case in the Appellate Division the sentences were made to run (1 5 concurrently without any comments by the Appellate Division making any provision which precludes me from making them to run concurrently. BY MR COETZEE: There is a case where it was ruled that - in the case of the dagga sentences which I submit one finds a similar (2 0 situation where the accused was convicted of two counts and it was found that his sentence can run concurrently. So therefore if Your Lordship imposes a five year sentence on Count 1 and order that the sentence on Count 2 in respect of Accused No. I run concurrently, I would submit M'Lord that this satisfies all (2 5 the circumstances of this case and that if Your Lordship had had a discretion in that sentence Your Lordship would not have sentenced Accused No. I to more than five years imprisonment on both counts. M'Lord while it may be said that this does not reflect the true position because Accused No . 2 is convicted of (30 two counts and Accused No. 1 only on one count and they are getting, in/ •.. • 82 • getting, in effect, SENTENCE the s a me sentence, I submit MILord that • this is a feature which is perhaps unfortunate for Accused No.2, but that Your Lordship should not consider this as a reason why Accused No. 1 should get a more severe sentence than the compulsory one provided by the Act. (5 SENTENCE SMALBERGER, J.: The legislature considers contraventions of the Terrorism Act in a serious light. It provides that on conviction you are liable to the penalties provided for by law for the offence of treason. (1 0 This means that it is competent to impose the death penalty for contraventions of the Act. I mention this in the hope that this will in itself in the future discourage you from further activities of the kind which have led to your conviction. (1 5 Mr Coetzee I omitted to ask you if you could give me the age of the accused. BY MR COETZEE: Accused No. 1 is 20 years old - they are both 20 years old. SMALBERGER, J.: No.2 first. Thank you. I propose to deal with Accused You are still a young man, 20 years of age. (2 0 On all the evidence you played a minor role in this inept and somewhat ill-prepared and ill-considered attempt to leave the country and undergo training. In Johannesburg you were easily persuaded to abandon your idea and return to Port Elizabeth. (2 5 There is no suggestion or evidence that subsequently you took part in any further unlawful activities. I accept that you were influenced in embarking on this venture by Mayford Faku, and I accept that subsequently you assisted the police in their investigations of the case. Unfortunately, the Act provides a minimum penalty of five years imprisonment. I am precluded by the/ ... (3 0 • • 83 SENTENCE by the provisions of the Act from treating you as a juvenile and suspendin~ any portion of your sentence. I consider five years imprisonment in your case to be a severe penality and were it in my power to do so I would have imposed a lesser sentence and would have suspended a large portion of the five years. (5 I am, however, obliged to give effect to the law, even though I am unhappy that my discretion should be fettered to the extent that it is. I accordingly have no alternative but to impose upon you the minimum sentence provided for by law, which is one of FIVE (5) YEARS IMPRISONMENT. (10 In the case of Accused No.1, you too are a young man, you too would have done better had you continued with your schooling and not engaged in these activities. By continuing with your schooling and possibly qualifying as a teacher you could have made a much greater contribution towards the community. I (1 5 accept, in your case too, that you were influenced by Mayford Faku. You were somewhat more persistent in your resolve to go to Botswana than Accused No.2. On the evidence, in Johannes- burg you tried initially to persuade Michael Faku not to return to Port Elizabeth, although you ultimately decided to return with him and Accused No.2. your unlawful activities. (2 0 On your return you continued with You approached the four State witnes- ses who have given evidence with a view to persuading them to undergo military training. In the case of some of them you approached them more than once. You were annoyed at the atti- (2 5 tude of at least two of them in not being prepared to fall in with your suggestion, and in the light of these features your conduct must obviously be seen in a more serious light than that of Accused No.2. In your case too, I am compelled by law to impose upon you a minimum sentence of five years in respect of each count. I do, however, agree with your Counsel that to require you/ .•. (30 • 84 SENTENCE require you to serve ten y e ars imprisonment would be dis- • \ proportionate-to the seriousness of the offences that you have committed. I accordingly propose to impose upon you a sentence which will effectively mean that you will serve six years imprisonment. In order to achieve this end, I impose (5 upon you, as I am obliged to on Count 1, FIVE (5) YEARS IMPRISONMENT, and also on Count 2 FIVE (5) YEARS IMPRISONMENT, but I direct that FOUR (4) of the FIVE (5) years imprisonment on Count 2 run concurrently with the sentence you will serve on Count 1. THE COURT ADJOURNS: (1 85 • • TRANSCRIBER ' S I, the undersigned , CERTIFICATE hereby certify that the aforegoing is a true and correct transcription of the original evidence recorded by means of a mechanical recorder in the case of: THE STATE VERSUS: TR f~SCRIBER LUBBE OORSKRYFSTER Ek , die ondergetekende , & M. J . GABA C . N. FAKU RECORDINGS SE : (NATAL ) (PTY . ) LTD . SERTIFIK~il.T sertifiseer hiermee dat die voor- afgaande In ware en juiste oorskrif is van die oorspronklike getuienis wat deur middel van In rneganiese opvangtoestel opgeneem is in die saak van: DIE STAhT I TEEN: OORSKRYFSTER: LUBBE OPNAMES ...... ... .. .... .. ... (NATAL ) (EDMS . ) BEPERK. 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